Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track

[mmom]

As predicted, things happened and the nap didn't go well.  First, I put him down at 11:20 and he didn't fall asleep until 11:55.  Then it is so windy here, that something blew into the house and hit it.  Of course it was the side where his room is and he jumped awake.  I tried to AP him back to sleep, but forget it!!  So he hardly got 1 hour in, which means probably a 6 pm bedtime.  This is why we can never push bed time back!!!!

[deckchariot]

grrrr on the windy day!  When he doesn't go to sleep right away - is he chattering and happy?  Have you tried pushing the nap a wee bit later?  He had a great night, so maybe he was so well rested he could handle a bit more  A time?

[mmom]

Michelle, he was having a party in his crib.  Walking around, banging on the crib rail, chatting, etc.  He never does this on a 5.5 hour A, so it was surprising.  When I went in to get him when he woke, I could tell by the stinky room that he had a BM.  So I am thinking that is why he didn't fall right to sleep.  I have never intentionally done a 6 hour A, so I don't know if he just couldn't settle because of needing a longer A or if he couldn't settle because he was trying to "go." 

[mmom]

What a horrible night!!  It started even before bedtime.  I was starting the wind down last night and DH came home.  Our LO got all wound up and DH started playing with him.  I had to remind him about his short nap and instead he did the bedtime routine.  But by that point, we were already 15 minutes later than I'd like.  Right as he was putting our LO down, he took a spoon out of our LO's hands and he freaked out. This turned into 1/2 hour of crying before bed.  He fell asleep at 6:30.   Then at 11, he started crying and moaning.  He would sit up and then lay back down.  I waited until 11:45 before trying to give him Motrin (2 teeth just popped and 2 more are on their way).  I know part of the NW'ing was OT, but I was thinking teeth had a role.  Well, once we put him back down, he cried for another hour.  He just couldn't settle again.  He would fall back asleep and then wake crying.  This went on and on.  I think it was a 1.5 hour NW, maybe more.

DH's alarm clock went off at 5:30 this morning, but he was too tired to get up.  Of course once I am woken, that is it.  So I have already had coffee and breakfast and no one is up.  It is 6:20 and my LO is still sleeping.  I am hoping he continues to sleep, since last night was such a disaster.

Never mind.....he is starting to chat - 6:20.  Darn.

[deckchariot]

{{{{{hugs}}}} on an awful night!  It definitely sounds like OT to me.  It's possible the not going to nap right away was because he had to poop.  I'd keep an eye on the am A time - maybe he's ready for a bit more though.  I wouldn't jump straight to 6, and I wouldn't increase after a bad night.  But, the next time he has a good night, maybe see if he could do 5.75 hrs before his nap.  Today I would stick to around 5.5 since the night was pretty rough - you may need to go down to 5 (or less).  Abby always needed more sleep when she was teething.

[babybarr]

Oh no poor you.  It's such a fine line between not wanting to get the OT and then putting them down UT and getting short naps isn't it?

We had bad night too but it looks like DS is poorly.  So today is already completely shot to pieces!

Kara hope you get a good nap, and great that it's now 2 less teeth to worry about. I'm always really grateful when more teeth pop!!

[mmom]

My LO is a never ending mystery.  We had a play date this morning and I left at 11:20 thinking my LO would fall asleep in the car and I would just transfer him to the house.  He didn't and it is 12:30 and he is still babbling in his crib.  What on earth is going on?  He wasn't rested, so there is no way he needs an A this long this morning.  The only good thing is if the nap is crappy, it is so late, that an early bedtime is easy.

[mmom]

It is 1:25 and he is still not sleeping.  He is just starting to cry.  I am ready to kill someone, because today of all days, I really needed to sleep too!

[mmom]

Today was horrible.  My LO refused to sleep.  I was actually able to AP him to sleep after a fight and he woke as soon as I put him down and that was it.  So, no nap for him.  We had to go to my in-laws house, to say goodbye to visiting family this afternoon, and my MIL kept commenting that "maybe he doesn't need a nap because look how full of it he is."  Um, that is called OT.  My goal was to have him in bed by 5:30, but it was slightly later.  He was sleeping by 5:45.  I am not anticipating a good night, given how bad last night and today were.  But I can hope that it turns out like that last time he refused a nap and he sleeps more tonight.  Meanwhile, I think I am going to bed at 7!

[Mashi]

Oh Kara!!!  When do things calm down for you with holiday stuff?  Hopefully this is the end of things this weekend and you can get back on track!

FWIW after a week or so of sorting things out, we have finally fallen into a routine again.  Wake at 700, nap 12-2, bed at 730.  Actually, it's probably closer to wake at 650, nap at 1210 most days, and he's doing close enough to a 2 hour nap for me to be satisfied.  The days that he only sleeps 1hr45 and wakes by 145 he still will not go to bed until 730 - making me think that body clock is having a lot to do with it. And, he's not sleeping any later the next morning, which does get me worried that the little bits of 15 minutes here, 15 minutes there will slowly build on him, but I am trying my hardest to not worry about those until it DOES happen.

I don't really know how we got on to it.  We did have quite a few days with what I consider early wakings, though not technically EWs -- 615, 620ish, and he was refusing to nap until 12 anyway. As the wakes got later, he still wanted that nap at 12, which made for long mornings but after two days of sleeping 12 - 230 he sorted himself out I think.  What is still bothering me is that every morning at 10ish he starts yawning and acting tired but will NOT NOT NOT nap.  We do 15-20 minutes of quiet story time together and some days he "asks" to take his books to his cot by himself for 10ish minutes. The quiet time seems to revive him enough and push him to the afternoon.

I hope last night was okay for you....wondering if you can just stick him on a set nap time, I don't remember if you've tried that or not? Or start with a set bedtime and see how it goes from there?

[mmom]

Mashi, I am so glad you are sorted now!!!  That sounds like a great routine.

Surprisingly, we did have a good night.  He slept from 5:45 - 6.  He did stir at 4 something, but resettled.  I am so thankful that he slept, because I went to bed at 7:30 myself and slept until he woke. 

Our chaos officially ends tomorrow.  It will not be crazy tonight, but he is staying with my mom, so he still won't be in his element. 

I haven't done set nap times in months.  Not since we started all of this craziness.  For a while, I was getting great naps by pushing him to noon and then doing a 4.5 hour A before bed. But then things got bad again and that is when you started helping me.  The past few days (with the exception of yesterday), we were doing 5.5 in the morning, getting a 1.5 hour nap, and 5.5 at night and getting 11 hour nights.

So it looks like you are doing 5.5 in the morning too?  I am wondering if I should try 5.75?  Or should I give it another day because of the bad night/day yesterday.  I do think he is often caught up from 1 good night though and when I assume he isn't, I gut into UT territory.  Or are you thinking I should try set nap times?

[Mashi]

I think I would assume he is caught up not after that 12+ hour sleep last night.  I know LizJ has her LO on close to 6h in the mornings and then a shorter (4.5ish) A before bed, and he is a bit younger than our LOs but has always been higher on his A time needs.  You could push him towards 6h in the morning and see where it gets you but if you do that then I would keep the A before bed short -- so not going on the idea that an xx length nap gets xx A time but more on the idea that he needs xx amount of A time total and subtract the 6 hours from that.  Am I making sense?

So for instance -- say he needs 14h sleep total, that leaves 10 hours of A time in a 24 hour period. If you do 6h in the morning, then regardless of his nap length he would need 4h A in the afternoon before bed.  I am finding that a 1hr30m nap and a 2h nap do not differ our A time before bed any more -- BUT a 2.5 hour nap in the afternoon does make a later bedtime.  Odd, to me, how the longer nap means more A time and the shorter nap does not mean less A time, but I think that is what messed me up a few weeks ago and until I accepted it, I couldn't get sleep sorted. 

Not sure if that is the answer for you but at the moment, it has worked here!

[mmom]

Thanks, I will give it a go this morning.  I am leaning towards going in the middle and trying a 5.75 A instead of 6.  I am not sure if that makes a difference.

Another question is my LO was doing 11 hour awake time during the day.  Would I still adjust the afternoon A according to a 10 hour awake time.  (My LO was doing 5.5 hours before and after the nap.)

[Mashi]

5.75 sounds a good place to start!

I only used the example of 10 hours A time just as a place to start -- if your LO is doing 11 hours and you think he is fine on 13 hours of total sleep then I would go form there. So it would be 11.5 hours at night? Or 11?  Which is more normal for him?

If it is an 11.5 hour night, that leaves 1.5 hours of napping that he needs and if it is 11h at night then it is 2h of napping.  Either way, split your 11 hours of A and whatever he gets in the morning, he gets the rest in the afternoon - regardless of nap length.  I am not promising it will work but it is what has sorted us out here!

[mmom]

He has only totaling 12.5 hours in a 24 hour period.  He is taking 1.5 hour naps and sleeping 11 hours at night.  If I can get him to take a longer nap than great.  But he seems stuck at that point right now.

I will give it a go.  Right now it is only 11 and he kind of seems cranky already.  I am keeping an eye on him to determine what I will do.