Help! Trying to increase A time for touchy baby

[*Jo*]

Well that is fantastic news! Im so glad you have had such wonderful results!

for the 30min restlessness, I dont suppose it was OT as much but rather maybe a little UT, you know how sometimes you go to bed and you just cant fall asleep because you are just thinking of things or arent as tired as you first thought? maybe it was that.

[irish3680]

I'm so glad you are feeling better! Feeling unsettled, stressed, and anxious is awful! I always increase A times in 10-15 minute increments. I decide to increase it when short naps occur for 3-5 days in a row when we were previously getting long naps with the same A time/naptime. We are going to be adding 10 minutes of A time before DD's pm nap starting tomorrow because 4 out of the past 5 days she has only napped 40-45 minutes and this nap used to be 1.5-2 hours.

[Tao]

Hi There,

I have a feeling that my DD needs more A time now but I thought I'd run it by you before doing it. I've noticed that on the days where she wakes up at 6:30 a.m. and I put her down at 9:25 she has a difficult time going down, but on the days that she wakes up at 6 a.m. and I take her out of bed at 6:15 but put her down at 9:25 she is very drowsy by nap time and goes down right away.

Now for her PM naps, I'm a bit confused. For the past two days, she has fought going down for her second nap. Yesterday, she woke from a.m. nap at 10:40 and I put her down for p.m. nap at 1:40. She was calm when I put her down; however, once she hit the bed she mantra cried for a short while and then proceeded to sit up, roll, talk to herself, stand up etc. I went in after 20 minutes of this to try to nurse and get her sleepy but she seemed wide awake. She never ended up taking her p.m. nap and was up from 10:40 until 6 p.m.! Luckily she went straight to bed. She never really has terrible OTness...rather she passes out from fatigue.

Today, same thing. She woke from a.m. nap at 10:45 and I put her down at 1:45 in the cot and again she mantra cried for 5 minutes or so and then sat up and tried holding herself up along the side of the crib. I tried nursing her again to try to get a nap in and she started singing while nursing. So, I picked her up and we walked around downstairs for 20 minutes and I just tried to put her down again (this will have been 3.5 hours of A time).

Does this sound like UT to you? I know I've missed the window by now if she doesn't go down, but I've found that if she's not tired enough and she starts playing, she'll just play right past her window.Have either of you experienced this behavior before? Now that she has learned to use her hands to stick her bottom up in the air, she keeps doing that in her crib if she's not sleepy.

Does OTness usually mean crying, not playing?

Thanks so much!

Christine

[Tao]

Hi Shannon,

I was also wondering when you are using set nap times, what do you do if you have a short a.m. nap? Do you give your DD less A time and put her down earlier or do you keep your same set p.m. nap time?

Thanks!
Christine

[irish3680]

Every LO is different in terms of their OT behavior, some cry others play. If she continues to short nap in the am I would add a little more A time to see if she is UT. I wait 3-5 days to see if EW or other disruptions are just a fluke or signs of needing a tweak. How is she sleeping at night? Is she still waking for an early morning BF? If she is sleeping better at night that could definitely be why she is napping less in the am. I would actually decrease the A time before the pm nap to rule out OT before you add more. How long have you been doing 3 hours before the pm nap? I thought you were giving her a little less? Could you post your routine for the past week? It also sounds like she has many new skills to practice in her bed. Developmental things can definitely disrupt sleep as LO are gearing up for them and once they have mastered them because they would rather practice/play than sleep. I will move the pm nap earlier if the am nap is very short (45 minutes compared to the usual 1.5 hours) but if the am nap is only slightly shorter (1.25 hours) I usually keep pm nap at the same time. One thing I noticed from your post was you going in and nursing to try and get a nap. I would probably stop doing that as it may make matters worse as DD will catch on and play more because she knows you will come and give attention, comfort, and food. If she is only mantra crying and playing I would leave her alone. I know the thought of a missed nap and OT is worrisome but if that happens you go with an ultra early bedtime and start over the next day. You just don't want to start bad habits in the process of figuring things out because then you always have a problem to solve, YKWIM?

Happy 2010!

[Tao]

Hi Shannon,

Thanks for helping me try to figure this out. Also, thank you for reminding me not to nurse when she doesn't nap. I agree that this will form a bad habit...I will definitely stop doing that. Here is her schedule beginning from Wednesday 12/30/09 only because before that I was trying to hold her to settle her and it made her angry so she wasn't really settling on her own. I was using AP before Wednesday...

12/30
6:00 a.m. Wake
9:15-10:40 Sleep (asleep right away)

10:40 Wake and BF
1:45-3:15 Sleep (asleep right away)

6:20 BT (asleep right away)
Two Night Wakings tonight at 10 and 2 a.m. (nursed, very hungry, think going through growth spurt)

12/31
6:30 a.m. Wake and BF
9:35-10:05 (went down right away but had unsettle sleep. Wake and sleep, wake and sleep)

10:05 Wake and play date
1:40-3:10 Sleep (went down right away)

6:20 BT (asleep right away)
One night waking at 1 a.m.

1/1/10
6:40 Wake
9:16 Put down in crib
9:42-10:55 (had a hard time settling on own)

10:55 Wake
1:45 Refused to go down, Mantra cry and then played

5:45 BT (asleep right away)

Two NWs at 11 and 4:30 a.m.

1/2/10
6:15 Wake and BF
9:20-10:45 (asleep right away)

1:45 Refused to sleep, cried for a bit and then played...tried standing up using crib bumper

5:50 BT (down right away)

Two NWs at midnight and 3 a.m.


* Her NWs are pretty sporadic but when she does nurse she can't wait for me to even lift the shirt and gulps down right away so I think she may be going through GS.

* I'm confused because I've had success with 3 hour A time before PM nap, and some days where it doesn't work.

Thank you!!

[Tao]

Also, it seems to be that she is a lot more hyper/spirited before her p.m. nap. I sometimes  do take her with me to run errands, get groceries but I always try to come back home an hour before her nap so she can have some quiet play and calm down. Today, I put her down a bit earlier:

6:00 Wake
9:20-10:45 Sleep

10:45 Wake
1:30 in crib. I could tell it would take her a while to settle because she immediately started squealing, playing, walking around on her hands etc. etc. I'm going to try to let her at it and see if she can eventually self-settle since I know that spirited babies just need less wind down and to work it out on their own. I may need to start earlier tomorrow if it takes her a while to do her "thing" in her bed and finally calm down so she won't hit OT by the time she is actually asleep. I wonder why her p.m. nap is so different from her a.m. nap. She is so tired by the 3 hour mark, although she does get more than 3 hours in the a.m. because she wakes at 6 and goes down at 9:20...

Just wanted to share today's thoughts. Thanks!!

[irish3680]

The spirited ones can be tricky!  DD1 is very spirited and gets OS very easily. Even now at 3.5 years old I have to be very careful when going out in the afternoons. She does best when things are calm and definitely can't be too close to sleep times and needs a good amount of quiet, relaxing time to really unwind before sleep. Is it possible to do outings after pm nap? Because of a longer winddown for bed, I find that LO's can handle a little more stimulation during the A time before bed. If this isn't possible I would try limiting outings before pm nap to 2 days between Mon-Fri, preferably not consecutive days. My first guess based on the days you typed out are that DD is a bit OT for pm nap. In my experience crying/fussing is usually a sign of OT as opposed to playing when UT, but all babies are different. Two other things that jump out at me is the variance in am wake-up time and the NWs. When trying to get things sorted out I find it's best to start the day at the same time every day, at least until things are going smoothly. Spirited ones often need their schedule quite consistent and may need intervention to achieve this. I know you want the latest wake-up time you can get. With the bedtime as it is for now, I really think realistically you can aim for a 6:30 am wake-up. So I would time am nap from 6:30 am and if she is still sleeping at 6:30, wake her up. I know it's hard and it stinks but it will help set her body clock. Also, I really think you need to get rid of the NWs and nursings. I really think they are a hinderance to your schedule and progress. How does she eat during the day? Does she eat solids well?

I'm glad I have been able to help you!!!