9mo old PM nap refusal... SA?

[marlowsmom]

Marlow just turned 9 months old this week.   She has been refusing her afternoon nap for some time now.   She won't lay.    I've been putting her in the crib about 15 or 20 min before the time I want her to sleep so she can get some A time in and settle herself down but that isn't working.     When she sees her crib she reaches for it and I lay her down.   She sits up and babbles.   I give her the cue words and tell her sleepy time and walk out.   She babbles for about 10 min then stands and starts fussing.    I wait until I hear the full blown cry and go in.   I try to get her as calm as I can and then tell her sleepy time and walk out.   She launches into full blown cry and it all falls to pieces from there.    I can't let her sit there in a full blown cry and if I go in, she settles right away but as soon as I walk out she starts the full blown cry again.    She's persistent too.    It just took me 1.5 hrs to get her to settle.   Of course she was in a full OT mode but this point.   I had tried everything to get her to calm down.   I try to settle in the crib, I pat her back, I whisper cue words, cover her with the blanket, give her a teething toy but it only results in her losing her mind when I walk out the door.    I've been reading http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=160947.0
and had one question.    How long do I let the crying go on before I try to salvage the nap?    After an 1.5 hrs and she was delirious I gave in.   I had to give her a bottle to put her to sleep.   She won't let me hold her at all so the bottle seems like a last resort.   Yes she is teething.   No, I didn't give her Tylenol this time but I did give her teething tablets and numbing gel.   Regardless of teething meds she still does this at every pm nap.    She knows how to fall asleep by herself; she doesn't want to do it.

[JaspersMum]

What's your daily routine like?  She might be starting the 2-1 switch.  Have you read the following link:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0

[marlowsmom]

Thanks Jaspers mom.   Her entire schedule could shift about 15 min either way.
A 615 ish
E 645 bottle
E 745 solids
S 915 - 1045 (she falls asleep in the car while on the way back from taking my 3yr to school)
E 1130 bottle
E 1230 solids
S 215 (this when she should be asleep.  I try to get her into bed at least 20 min before. She usually sleeps 45 min)
E bottle 330ish
E 515 solids
S 6 or 630 ( I aim for 630pm.   It all depends on her afternoon nap.   She will sometimes surprise me with a 1.5 hr nap)

Her A time is about 3.45min and she can sometimes do 4 hours.     She only has issues with the afternoon nap.   

[JaspersMum]

Have you read the link?  So you've got two options . . you need to cut one of your naps and perhaps push the am nap later.  From personal experience I've found cutting the am nap worked better (even though I resisted it in the beginning!)  Either way you need to cut her daytime sleep.  What type of personality is she?  If she's touchy you might want to cut back slowly.  You could try:

Wake 6.15am
Nap 9.30 - 10.30/10.45
Nap 1.30/1.45 for 1.5/2 hours
Bed 3.5/5 hours after wake up

OR

Wake 6.15am
Nap 9.30 - 11
Nap 3-4
Bed 7.30

It seems to be inevitable that your day will lengthen to try and fit in all the sleep and your nights will shorten to around 11 hours.

[marlowsmom]

Today was the first day that she didn't fall asleep in the car on the way home.    She woke at 615 and we got home at 915.  I took her right upstairs, changed her diaper and put her in the crib.   She was reaching for it.   She laid down but then got up.  I sat by her crib and said the cue words "lay down" and "sleepy time"   She thought it was a game.    I'd pat the mattress and say lay down and she would pat the mattress.   She stood up and babbled.  *sigh*   I had to use the restroom so I ducked out and she cried.    I popped back in and laid her down.   She cried but put her thumb in her mouth and closed her eyes at exactly 3.5 hr A time.      Now if only her afternoon nap goes as such.   

I've read that link before but I'm going to reread it and see if it applies.   She knows how to put herself to sleep she doesn't seem to want to do it.

She can do about 3.5 to 3.45 hr A time in the morning; there is something about a car ride that puts her to sleep.    I've gone as long as 4 hr A time in the afternoon and I sometimes get a 1.5 hr nap and other times 45min.   

I'm honestly terrified of going through the 2-1 transition.   I didn't BW my first daughter and when she started refusing her am nap my MIL told me that she was probably ready for 1 nap a day.    So the next day I put her down after lunch.   I don't remember if she slept well or not.   Since she was a BW baby she had terrible naps.   She only did 2x30min a day.   Eventually she started sleeping 1.5 hrs on one nap.    Sometimes things were less stressful when I wasn't as informed.

[JaspersMum]

I can understand how you are terrified!  It is a pretty crazy time.  And yes, I know what you mean about 'being informed' and how much harder it can be.  I wish sometimes I didn't know about this stuff and just went with my baby's cues purely . . but then I see other mothers that do that and they get NWs, EWs, no structure to their day and wonder why!  I see BW as a solution to those problems.  But then it doesn't fit everyone.  Trust your instincts and perhaps try a few different methods. 

Sounds like this morning she just wasn't tired and you can probably stretch her first A time even more.

I would be reluctant to jump to one nap at her age . . she is still so young.

[marlowsmom]

OK thanks Rachel.    If she falls asleep in the car on the way home should I wake her?  It's only a 10 min drive.    I too think she is too young to transition.    She used to EW and then had to wait until after I dropped my daughter off from school to fall asleep in the car.   That was usually a 3.45 hr A time by the time she fell asleep.   She was about 7.5 mo old then.    Now I know she can handle about 3.5 to 3.45 hr A time.   

I'm not going to give up on BW.   I've been using BW since Marlow was 3 wks old; I'm too far down the road to go back.   I wouldn't go back anyway.   BW is all about guiding you through the bumps in the road.

[marlowsmom]

I think I'm seeing the light here.   She is only napping 1 hour in the a.m. and usually falls asleep under A time.   So since she is taking a "short nap" she is OT by the time she hits bedtime for her p.m. nap.   AH HA!!    I need to keep her awake on the drive home tomorrow.

[JaspersMum]

You are definitely on to something.  I had the same problem.  I really had to cut back that A time after the short morning nap because he was too OT to sleep . . here I was thinking he was UT but he was OT.

Being out and about can be a pain sometimes!  Sometimes you want them to sleep in the car, other times you don't!

By the way, I love the name Marlow!

[marlowsmom]

Rachel,
Marlow had a short nap in the a.m. and a long nap (1.40min) in the p.m. ( I had to wake her at 430pm).   We b/c of that long nap she had multiple NW.    Each NW was resolved with me going in there to lay her down but the last one at 430am was difficult.  I gave up and left her alone.   I laid down in the next room and watched her on the video monitor.   She eventually laid down and I guess fell asleep.   I just can't see her laying in the crib for 1.5 hrs and being quiet so I assume she slept since I did.   She woke at 6am.  I hope I'm right.
Thanks for the compliment on the name.   DH picked it out.   I wanted Sloan.   We compromised and gave her Marlow Sloan.   
I like Jasper.  Super cute name for a boy.

[marlowsmom]

Well she didn't fall asleep in the car but came very close.  I got her home and asleep by 930 with some fussing.   She slept 1.15 min.   She seemed happy and we went about our day.  I wanted to get her into bed a bit early so she can wind down.   She fussed, cried, but she did lay down when I patted the mattress and said "lay down".    She got worked up and I had to pick her up to console her and get her to calm.   Once she calmed she stuck her thumb in her mouth and I put her in the crib.   She fell asleep but  short napped.    HMMM>  Same amount of A time but short napped.   She woke at 315 but I'll get her into bed by 615pm.    Back to the drawing board.

[JaspersMum]

Thanks re Jasper.  Friends and family thought we were a little weird but who cares what they think!  They all love it now!

Hmmm . . my only suggestion would be to cut her am nap further.  What was your whole day routine like?  Would you consider cutting to 45 minutes?

[marlowsmom]

She had a rough night.   She must've woken up about 5 times and the 430am wake up was the one that I let her sit in the crib.   She wasn't complaining and she must've eventually gone to sleep.    She woke at 6am but she was still tired from the rough night.   She would crawl around then lay down on the floor for a few seconds.   She never does that.   Regardless, I decided to keep her up until after I dropped my 3yr old off at school.
A 6am
E 645 bottle
E 745 solids
S 930- She was almost asleep in the car on the way home but I kept talking to her.
A 1050am
E 1130 bottle
E 1230 solids
S 230- 315 struggled to get her down for about 20 min.
E 330 bottle
S 630pm

A.M. 3.5hr A= 1.20 min nap
P.M. 3.40min A = 40 min nap

When you say "cut" do you mean giving her less A time or more A time?   She does about 3.5 hrs.  Are you suggesting that I try 3.45hr A time?

[JaspersMum]

I mean cut back her am nap.  That way she'll be less rested and more likely to take her pm nap.

Can't remember if you've mentioned it but is she teething?  Could account for the NWs.

I think you've got the am A time right at 3.5 hours.  Personally, I would cut that nap to no more than 1 hour.  Then try and get her to do at least 1.5 hours in the pm.  That's what I'd be aiming for.  You just have to be careful with that middle A time.

You've definitely got a kid that is probably going to be on 1 nap by the time she's 12 months . . I can't believe she's so young and already transitioning.  Although, having said that, DS showed signs around 10 months.  He's 14 months now and we still are not on one nap! 

By the way, feel free to post your routine without the Es.  To make it easy for you you could do:

Wake -
AM nap -
PM nap -
Bed -

[marlowsmom]

OH gotcha!  Make her short nap.   She is teething but last night's NW were above and beyond normal.   As I was posting my EAS I thought that should just post my S.   Sorry, next time.     UGH I can't believe she is going to hit the 2-1 early.   When I go back and think about it though I think my DD1 switched to 1 nap before her 1st birthday.