Please help - lack of sleep making me ill!

[beckygatt]

My DD is eight and a half months and has NEVER STTN. Until about 3 weeks ago she was still having 2-3 feeds at night but I managed to stop those without too much resistance. However this was only by getting her into bed with me when she woke up to feed. It was the only way she would settle. To try and solve the co-sleeping problem I moved her to her own bedroom about a week ago. She will sleep there but she wakes up a number of  times each night and I have to go in to give her paci and my hand to hold till she goes back to sleep. This is the only way she'll go back to sleep. If I try to take my hand away before she's fully asleep she'll roll over and start crying or crawl around and stand up. Sometimes I'll go in, give her paci and she'll be asleep in a couple of mins, but at around 3-4am she tends to wake up and not fall back to sleep for 1-2hrs. Which means I'm in there holding her hand for that long! Once she finally goes back to sleep she'll often wake up anyway after 10 mins. Once she's been awake for a while she'll often start crying, presumably because she's hungry. Anyway after a whole night of this we both end up exhausted but still go through the same thing the following night. She naps during the day but not always for very long.

I really don't know how much more I can take of this. I'm exhausted and stressed and its making me keep on getting sick. I haven't slept well for eight months and there's no sign of it getting any better. I actually dread going to bed at night cos I know what's  ahead. People keep telling me the only way she'll learn is by letting her cry. I'm dead against it but I'm starting to wonder if they're right. I know I've become a prop and she's come to rely on me too much but I don't know how to change this. And to be honest I'm too tired. She sleeps really well next to me but I don't want to continue with that. I thought about trying gradual withdrawal but she won't let me remove my hand till she's fully asleep so I don't see how I can.  Can anyone please give me some advice? I'm getting desperate! Thanks

[anna*]

My LO also had never sttn at that age, I totally sympathise (((((hugs)))))

Can she find and replace the paci for herself? If so, I'd totally recommend PUPD. It's hard work but it is effective. She will learn to soothe herself back to sleep without you. There is a lot of crying involved, but you won't ever leave her alone to cry.

[beckygatt]

Unfortunately she doesn't put paci back at night. During the day she'll pick it up and putit in her mouth or hold it and put it in and out but at night she never has. She just cries and waits for me.

[anna*]

I think you could work on teaching her. Perhaps you could start by putting the paci in her hand. Or bringing her hand to the paci (of course you need to make sure there are lots of pacis in her crib so that she can locate one easily). I know a few mums have had success by making a paci-blankie - take a muslin cloth and sew like 6 pacis to it, each one held in place with a few strong stitches. That way, if she can find the blankie she can find a paci.

Or, you could choose to wean the paci?

The other thing is holding your hand. You can break that association too, even without doing PUPD. Just sit next to her crib and don't hold her hand. Soothe her with your voice. Yes she will cry and complain, but she will sleep, eventually.

[beckygatt]

Thanks! I will try both those things. Not sure I can handle giving up paci just yet. So if I sit next to her crib and she spits paci out or starts crawling or standing what do i do? Do I lay her down again and give her paci or just leave her and talk to her?

Also I've just been reading in support for spirited babies about someone who tried keeping her ds up all day to make him sleep longer at night. Do you think this is worth trying? I don't think she's spirited overall but maybe she is when it comes to sleep. She definitely seems to resist sleep and doesn't nap for long during the day. Thanks so much for your quick replies I REALLY appreciate it! xxx

[anna*]

Thanks! I will try both those things. Not sure I can handle giving up paci just yet. So if I sit next to her crib and she spits paci out or starts crawling or standing what do i do? Do I lay her down again and give her paci or just leave her and talk to her?

If she's crawling or standing I would just pat her mattress and quietly over and over say it's time to lie down baby, it's time to sleep. Keep a soft, calm, quiet tone of voice. If she seems 'stuck' standing up and can't get down, then yes, lay her down and give her the paci in her hand (or guide her hand to the paci)

Also I've just been reading in support for spirited babies about someone who tried keeping her ds up all day to make him sleep longer at night. Do you think this is worth trying?

No I definitely do not think it is worth trying! Overtiredness is much more likely to be the cause of her night wakings, and doing this seems like a recipe for disaster. If she's resisting sleep, as well as all these night wakings, it really seems like she is overtired so the last thing you would want to do is make this worse! Have you tried cutting her A times back and giving her a very early bedtime if she has a day of short naps? Have you had anyone look at your EASY recently?

[beckygatt]

When she has shorter naps I do put heer to bed a bit earlier and I try to shorten A times. But if she's not ready to sleep she'll just play in cot, crawl around and stand up. If she doesn't want to sleep there doesn't seem to be anything that will make her!! Same at night; when she's awake at niight for an hour no amount of shh patting or lullabies will make her sleep any faster. Very frustrating!! I've tried lengthening daytime naps but often she's up after half an hour wide awake. If we're out and she's in moving buggy or car she might sleep a bit longer. Anyway will try these things tonight and let you know how it goes. Thanks so much! Off to hopefully get a bit of sleep. Feeling a bit more positive :-)

[anna*]

Would definitely be worth posting your EASY either here or on the EASY forum because those 30 mins naps are definitely saying overtired to me. And OT at bedtime will for sure make the nights much worse, and make it harder to wean any props (ie you!).

How was last night?

[beckygatt]

At 12.30 she woke up crying. I went in and tried to give her paci to replace but she was too frantic so I helped her with that. However I did not give her my hand and instead I sat near her taalking to  her. She spent a good 10-15 mins crying and getting up and I stayed near her and occasionally lay her down again and gave her paci. Eventually she just rolled onto her side and fell asleep cuddling her soft toy! Best of all she remained asleep till 8am!! She's never done anything like this before so its definitely a success so far! Should I do this everytime I put her for a nap and at her bedtime? Will also try to work on teaching her to replace paci. Thanks! Will try to post my EASY routine too.

[anna*]

Hey that is great! Yep, I would try just sitting next to her crib when she needs settling whether it is for naps or NWs. Only talk to her if she is really upset, don't keep up a constant stream of chatter. And keep trying to give her her paci in her hand, rather than put it in her mouth for her - you can even put it in her hand and then guide her hand to her mouth - she will get it eventually!

[beckygatt]

One thing.... sometimes she'll show signs of being tired but the moment I put her to bed she's suddenly wide awake smiling and crawling around. If she does this should I still leave her there and try to make her sleep? How long do I go on persevering? Have put her to bed using the same method and so far sleeping soundly. Fingers crossed!

[anna*]

Do you think it's a case of missing her sleep window? That would account for the short naps? I would try putting her down before you expect to see sleep cues (yes this means watching the clock somewhat), and see if that helps her to go down easier.

If she's awake and crawling around playing, I would give her a kiss goodnight and leave the room, she doesn't need you there if she's happy. If she's crying and not settling then I would follow the advice for PUPD - try to settle her for 45 mins, if she's still crying then abandon the nap and do a reduced next A time. For bedtime and for nightwakings, you don't take a break - just keep going until she sleeps again.

Fingers crossed for a good night for you!

[beckygatt]

I've been persevering as above both at night and for naps; leaving her in her cot and staying near talkinng  to her if she cries. Sometimes it will work quickly but other times, especially for naps it takes longer and she might cry for ages before finally falling asleep. I feel so mean when she's standing there reaching out to me crying and I just leave her there! Am I doing it OK? Its been a few days but she doesn't seem to be settling any faster. Sometimes it takes longer. She does sleep longer at night on the whole I think but not always... It breaks my heart when she looks at me and reaches out and I don't pick her up! Just need reassurance that I'm on the right track.

[anna*]

Do you think she's struggling because she's overtired? Sleep training is so much more difficult and takes much longer if they are OT.

[beckygatt]

Could be but when I try to put her down for naps earlier she doesn't fall asleep for ages  and ends up crying a lot, and often has a short nap anyway. I'm sure she probably is OT it just seems really hard to break the cycle!