23 month old playing me for a fool?

[lilflav]

I feel like I've been st'ing dd for almost her whole life & she resists independant sleep.  Before the holiday (thanksgiving) I finally had her to where she could fall asleep with me outside of the room, she would scream once or twice, I would tell her to lay down & go to sleep from outside & that was it.  She became a little ot before the holidays due to teething, then we got off track around thanksgiving & she had some long a times.  She would toss & turn & not go to sleep.  I started going in and rocking her while she was laying down.  At first she would go to sleep immediately & not need it every night.  By last Fri she was needing it for every sleep and taking up to 1.5 hrs to finally fall to sleep- naps & night, having several (sometimes long nws), & her naps went from mostly 2 hrs  to mostly 1hr20-30 min and many times needed to resettle at about 50 min.

She slept at my dads house for the first time in a long time last Sat & what do you know, she went right to sleep & slept through from 8-8.  So I decided to try to st again.  For her naps sun, mon, & tues, & sun & mon night she went to sleep in under 20 min.  Then last night (tues) she could not fall to sleep.  She did try, she tossed & turned then would get up and cry, lay down be still for several min.,  toss & turn, go "EHHHH" which means come and help me fall to sleep.  Finally after an hour I gave in and stood by the crib & put my hand on her to fall to sleep, which she did immediately.  It went the same way for her nap today. 

I know they typically have a regression about the 3rd day.  But helped her to sleep because I was doubting this was a regression.  I figured that she wouldn''t have tried so hard to fall asleep & being that she only took 20 min to fall asleep the first few times she would've given in sooner.  But still second guess myself and think maybe she is playing me for a fool.

I never discount the possibility of teething.  It does kind of look like her top canines are soming out (she's a late teether), but when her bottom canines looked like this we made some major headway in her sleeping & it was months before they broke through.  Also this has always been her pattern- she would go to sleep w/out me for a few days, then need me again, then back to independant sleep.  I can't attribute every time to teething. 

Spending hours in her room every day just to get her to sleep is really working on my last nerve.  I leave the room unbelievably stressed, have no time to do anything, & have no time w/ dh. I can't do this anymore.  On top of it, every time I achieve independant sleep she teethes or become ot or something ruins it & I have to spend months retraining again.  I have reached my breaking point many time over & have reached it again.  I don't mind being in her room & helping her to sleep, but not when it STILL takes her over an hr to fall asleep.

Since this all started I have been putting her in her crib after ~4.75-5hrs a time, but she is asleep closer to 6-6.5 hrs a time.  When she was sleping well & seemed to be all caught up on her sleep she would fall asleep after about 5.75 hrs a time, and I couldn't get more than 12.5-13 hrs total sleep into her.

Thanks for reading, hopefully someone can help me figure this out!

[jordiwes]

Why don't we start by finding an "ideal" schedule that fits in with her 12.5 hours of sleep needs. Then we can sleep train around those times that we figure out. It could be that sometimes you are putting her down OT or UT and that's why she is struggling.
When does she typically or ideally go to bed, wake up and take a nap?

[lilflav]

Thanks for the reply.  I was thinking the problem may be that she is ot from sleeping so little over a long period of time, but ut in terms of A times, kwim?  So we are getting hit on both ends.  Fortunately the past two night have been good (about 11-11.5 hrs) & she has caught up a little bit. Last night I put her down at 7:45, she fussed for 10 min, layed mostly still for 25 min, then went "ehh ehh" for me to help, shortly after me helping she started to toss & turn and finally fell to sleep at 8:45.  So she does try, sometimes more sometimes less.

7:30-8:00 I wake if she isn't up at 8
12:15-12:45 (4.75-5 hrs a time) in crib, asleep between 1 & 2, nap is mostly 1hr10-1.5 hrs
7:15-7:50ish (4.75-5 hrs a time) in crib Sometimes not asleep until 8:45

After she gets caught up on sleep & falls asleep at a normal time, I am sure she will go back to waking at ~7am.   I am also trying to get her nap back to 1.5-2 hrs, she has less/shorter nws when she sleeps 1.5< hrs.           

[gpmom]

Sounds like you have a stong willed little one there!! 

What do you have to do when she cries?  When she eh eh's for you do you have to go in, or do you just think she will wake up if you dont?
Do you guys have a solid routine for wind down?

[lilflav]

Only a 1 hr nap today

I am gw'ing, right now I am standing by the door where she can't see me unless she gets up.  I am not doing wi/wo because I have always gw'd and mostly because she climbed out of the crib the other week.  She doesn't usually full on cry, mostly fussy on/off cries.

We have a very solid wind down, she even tells us what is next if we are not moving along quick enough

[jordiwes]

So our schedule for our low sleep needs 12 or 12.5 girl is as follows:
Awake: 6am
Nap: 12pm-2pm
Asleep 7:30pm
This is of course ideal for us but we strive for it (but we usually get 12 hours total). It seems to work when we can get there.

So you might want to try:
Awake: 7:30am
Nap: 1pm-2:30pm
Asleep: 8:30pm

It does sound like your little one is UT in terms of total sleep needs by bed time. Can you push her nap forward a bit?
Edit: PS a later nap might make it a longer one.

[lilflav]

That was basically where we were before this happened.  I've been letting her sleep longer times (which only amounted to 12-13 hrs) because for the past two+ weeks she was only getting about 9-10 hrs in the night & 1-1.5 in the day w/ her taking so long to fall asleep & nw's. 

I'll try giving the longer A time a go again, maybe now that she has somewhat caught up it'll help.  I'll let you know what happens in a few days.

[lilflav]

So I am having one problem with the schedule, what do I do when it takes her forever to fall asleep for her nap?  Today went like this-

wake- 7:45
in crib-1:00
asleep-2:50
Still asleep now- 3:45

[mini me]

Hiya! Just a random thought ... do your A times have to be even amounts? Artemis wakes at 8am naps at 2-3.30pm and in bed by 7.30/8pm. I have a friend who's DD (same age as mine - think our LO are also around the same age, right?) and her DD is awake at 7.45, nap at 11-1pm and in bed by 7pm. Quite different, but works. I may be way off, but just thought I'd throw the idea out there. Hugs

[lilflav]

Thanks Andi... We've done that in the past w/ mixed results, I may try it again.  We end up w/ uneven times anyway because of her taking so long to fall asleep for naps.