how to help stay asleep during naps?

[sherrydl]

Hello. I have a 10-week old. We have been on EASY for the past 2 weeks (a little late to start). I have been using the shh-pat to help him sleep. He falls asleep fairly well (usually 10 mins of fussiness/crying) but doesn't seem to stay asleep. He'll wake up anywhere between 20 min to 40 mins and then I repeat the process. Is there anything I can do to help him stay asleep? How do I make sure I'm not becoming a prop?

Thanks in advance. This forum has been a huge help!

[nursemeg01]

I have a 10 week old as well---and I hope it's not too late to start---but am having the same problem. The advice I've been offered on this forum is that the A time may be too long and she is OT. What does a typical day look like for you?

by the way--one of the other books that I'm reading said that naps are very unpredictable until 4 months and aren't really considered naps until then. Does your LO wake up in a good mood or are they fussy? that might be some indication as to how they are doing...

I'm proud of your ability to do the shush-pat. I'm still attempting to get her to settle in her crib. Any suggestions there?

[stevesmum]

Yay!! I've found some people in the same boat as me!!!! I can get my little guy to settle in his crib ok, usually a little pat and sh or just sitting next to the cot. (I wait for him to cue he is tired first, and then change his bum, sit in the comfy chair with his paci and lovey for a while, then cot). I just can't beat the short nap either!!! Or if I think i have, it turns out that he is just doing little 5min catnaps. Are you guys swaddling? It's hot here, and bubba hates it - i think - and ends up tired from fighting it I'd reckon! If I can get him to have a long sleep 1.5hrs he is really happy afterwards (wakes a little sad but quick to overcome that). I'd love to know how to beat the 45min mark....
Good luck - hope your day is going ok!

[nursemeg01]

it's funny we're having the same discussion on another forum--you are NOT alone! I'm impressed by the fact he'll go to sleep in his cot. We don't have that luxury. Someone in the other forum suggested a Wake to Sleep procedure. You go in at about the 40 minute mark (or 5 min before the usual wake up time) and start shushing. The thought is that you stimulate them a little bit to change their sleep so that at the 45 minute mark they don't jerk awake. I have not tried this as I'm afraid she'd just wake up. The forum we are discussing this on is called 'shush/pat am I doing this right" and Huby started it. You are welcome to read some of the comments there but we have gotten off subject a bit. It is so nice to see others going through the same thing---but I am confident we will get through this!

[Mjaz]

Hi Ladies,

I feel like I've just come out the other side of what you're going through - my LO is 4 months now and doing well with naps.  Here's my 2 cents if if helps!

There are basically 4 things you can do to extend naps: 1) try playing with the A time 2) hold through the jolts 3) shh/pat and 4) wake to sleep.  I wouldn't shh for W2S, just go in a few minutes before the normal wake time and stir the LO a bit by touching them softly.  Personally, I haven't tried W2S, and feel like that's better suited to habitual wakes (like NW or EW).

The first thing I would do (did) was sit and observe a whole nap...I needed to figure out what LO was doing in order to figure out how to tackle it.  He was definitely jolting at the 38 min. mark.  Since he was not swaddled, and was waking from the jolts, I did HTTJ for several weeks.  Then I moved to going in at the 30 min. mark, watching him and the second he started moving I'd start shh/pat.  Now that he's got the hang of shh/pat it's incredibly easy to get him back to sleep when I have to - 30 seconds of shh/pat and he's asleep.  It took me probably 6-7 weeks to get to this point, but he is now starting to do 1:30-2 hour naps on his own!   So - DEFINITELY worth the time investment. 

I hope that's helpful!  I know I needed to hear a bit of encouragement and success when LO was at the 12 week mark! 

Melinda

[stevesmum]

Thanks Melinda!!! I went and read the FAQs for naps, and learnt a little more about sleep. I didn't realise that apparently its something that does happen at 3 months, and its common, and it helps if you swaddle, and hold them down! I then applied this at the next nap, which I was watching like a hawk to see when he got tired in the A time, and I held through his jolts - 5, 10, 20, 30 and 40 - or so it seemed - and HE HAS SLEPT THROUGH 45 MINS!!!!!! He is now up to 1hr15 YAY YAY!! I just wonder though, anybody remember what a night sleep pattern should be like for under 3m nearly 3m? How many wakeups etc after the DF before the wakeup do your little ones do?
THANKS AGAIN MELINDA!!!!

[Mjaz]

Sure!  So glad I could help

Stevesmum, so he jolted a lot, huh?  If I were you, I would watch and not httj for one nap - to see if he can get through the smaller jolts on his own.  My LO made little jolts, but slept through them and then had a BIG jolt at the 38 min. mark and that's the one I would HTTJ. So maybe you don't have to do it the whole time!

Yay!  I'm go glad you got past the 45 min. mark.  It's truly such a good feeling. 

As far as nights...my LO was waking once at that age, but is now waking twice a night.  I haven't been able to figure out why.  Oh, and we don't do a dream feed.  I bet once you sort his naps out a bit, his night sleep will be better.  What's he doing?

Melinda

[stevesmum]

Hi Melinda, We dream feed when he starts to murmur between 10.30-11.40, then another shorter feed (that's just what he does) at 3, and he has to settle himself from 5-6. Oh he goes down 7-7.30 by the time he's asleep.Jolts aren't a problem at night either.

[Mjaz]

That sounds pretty good!  How are the naps going?

[nursemeg01]

Hey just a quick note. I changed our swaddle today and started using a "miracle blanket." It may be just a coincidence but instead of the 45 minute nap my LO slept for 2 hours. I saw her on the monitor wake up several times but she drifted back off. I've just put her down for her evening nap, so we'll see what happens here. She was a bit OT because I had to go out and do some shopping today and although she slept in the car, it was not ideal sleep. I'm sure that may affect things.

[stevesmum]

You know, I thought I had it made yesterday... After being out the night before, all naps were 1.15plus.. Yep, I was on cloud nine. Today, though the proverbial has hit the fan!!!!! NOthing is working... The long feeds (better than 10mins) that I thought I had - no longer exist. The liking the swaddling again, fights it to bits. The easy to put down and leave - huh! Perhaps yesterday was a dream!!! Do any of your guys fight the swaddle? Oh and did I mention the miracle child woke up like a gazillion times in the wee small hours this morning....
Hey mjaz - do you feed at night at all? Are you bottling or breast?
Any suggestions on how to keep it altogether?
Ps. what's the miracle blanket?

[nursemeg01]

The miracle blanket is a marketed swaddle device. It is pretty difficult to wiggle out of and my LO seems to love it.

http://www.miracleblanket.com/index.htm

[Mjaz]

Hey there - (((hugs))) - My LO goes down between 6:30-7:30, and usually wakes once around 1-2.  He gets a 6oz bottle and goes back to sleep.  Most of the time he makes it till 6, but sometimes we have an early wake at 5, which is no fun.  So - yes, I feed once or twice a night.  He is a very hungry little boy!  Breasfeeding ended at 3 months for us...as my LO wasn't getting enough   So he is bottlefed now and very happy.

Stevemum, do you want to post your EASY?  Have you tried swaddling with just one arm out?  Has he found his hands?  Does he suck on them?  I stopped swaddling at 8 weeks b/c he fought it so much and I didn't see a huge difference in his sleep...but I know that's not the case for most LOs.

Anyway, hang in there.  Let me know if you want me to take a look at your EASY.

Melinda

[stevesmum]

Hi Melinda, I shall tell you now that your bub is very cute in that photo... I keep forgetting to mention it, though I think of it each time I see his photo! Well last night was pretty good, I keep persisting with this swaddling though it's hot and he hates it. It was the first night in I don't know how long that he didn't drop off to sleep straight away. BUT,.... I did manage to beat him to the DF and got 10 mins in there, and then at 2 before he actually woke up (he was barely awake) I got 20mins into him... Unfortunately, DH picked him up at 4 when Steve was stirring and he migrated into our bed... and proceeded to keep DH up until 5.30 or so when DH had to get up, and Steve decided to nap. I fed him at 6.20 and he's back in bed at 7.30. I think yesterday was a top of the hill day - things were just adding up, and now that we've hit the 'peak', it's smooth sailing down the other side. I'm not saying its perfect, but I'm a lot less edgy so that's got to be good. I tried swaddling with one arm out, as he has to have his feet out. I stopped ages ago because I'd managed to give him heat rash, so was just putting him to bed in a bodysuit. He likes sleeping on his side and his belly too, but if he's swaddled I only put him down on his back. He has found his hands and pushes him dummy out, and sucks on them. DH would rather have him get used to a dummy than a thumb... It's pretty hot and humid here at the mo, and he fights the swaddle so much. I've even tried taking him through the s's 15 mins before i think he will sleep, and as SOON as i see a yawn, red eyes, or anything.
Our days aren't all that predictable as far as times, though I do stick to keeping him up no more than 1.15 unless he's tired earlier. This is our best day so far
wakes sometime around 5.40 (I'd really like it to be 6.30)
A (not hungry so had bath)1hr10
S 6.50am 40mins
E 7.30 10mins
A 1hr 25
S 8.55 fought swaddle, hard cry 45mins
E 5mins
A 45mins (trying to beat OT'd)
S started at 10.30, cried fought eventually asleep on belly 10.50 2hrs
E 12.50 10mins
A1hr30
S2.20 (1hr50 had 5 min wake up in middle)
E4.15 5mins
nap 30mins in pram
A 2hr45 (excluding nap time)
E 6.40 10mins
S7.30
DF10.30 doesn't wake up - sometimes
DF 2am doesn't wake up - sometimes
awake sometime around 3-4

He used to only eat for 10mins, though when I first started EASY he would do upwards of 15 which i thought was great. He was doing really well as far as weight though. He only gets his dummy when he goes to bed though. I try to offer food as much as possible, as he seems he doesn't want it much. Should i not bother do you think? I started EASY as I wanted him to sleep longer, thus eat longer. He is sleeping longer so I guess my goal is achieved. I have to go to town tomorrow (I live on a cattle station) so that will throw a spanner in the works anyhow - plus christmas, but I'll keep perservering with the longer naps if nothing else, oh and I've always fed EAS to that's no probs, just the clockwork will be out. Thanks for replying Mel

[Mjaz]

Hi again,
Thank you for the compliment on Eli!  He is a little cutie, if I don't say so myself.So, I have some clarifying questions Steve's 3 months?

When Steve got up at 4, why (do you think?) wouldn't he go back to sleep?  Does he eat?  So he ate at 2am and then wasn't hungry at 5:40, so didn't eat again till 7:30?  Wow. 

It seems like that first 40 min. nap starts your day on an OT path, huh?  Have you had any success in extending that one?  I think he was OT already by the second nap - the one where he cried for a long time.  That's really tough to start your day OT.  I am always adamant about getting a solid first nap.

The later naps look great!  Do you think he slept better because he was on his tummy?  Are you OK with that?  My LO sleep exclusively on his tummy!  From day one, he'd never, ever sleep well on his back.  Have you tried letting him sleep more on his tummy?  And have you tried letting his suck on his fingers vs. pacifier/swaddle?

I think if you worked on consolidating those first 2 naps into a good, restorative long nap - then you'd have your three 1.5-2 hour naps and a catnap - which would be the ideal. 

Have you posted on the bfeeding boards about his eating?  I'm not at all sure what to tell you there - as my baby, more or less, refused to bfeed well ;(  He wasn't gaining enough, so I was forced to bottle feed.

I think you're doing great.  Persevere with whatever works!  Once we figured out Eli's naps, his schedule really fell into place.  Now I'm tackling moving him to a 4 hr. EASY, and so far he's not enjoying the transition!  Ha ha.

Melinda