1 hour naps, too short?

[EricaM31]

Okay well both morning naps she only did 45 min.  I tried to httj but didn't work either time, hopefully this afternoon will be successful.

[~Sara~]

A tricky thing about this age, too, is that this is when babies start to learn how to organize their daytime sleep, and they have to learn how to transition between sleep cycles.  One sleep cycle tends to be ~45 minutes...so it could be that her A times are good, she's not hungry either, but that when she hits the light sleep phase at the beginning of the 2nd sleep cycle, she wakes up.  I know there are a lot of possibilities for the 45 minute nap in that brief explanation, so, that's why we need a couple of days to make sure we have everything as consistent as can be and we go from there.

If she keeps waking at 45 minutes, regardless of A times, then I think it's just the transitioning that she's having problems with.  Httj is what got us through that time period (for us, it was about 2 months); but maybe wake to sleep would work for her.  Let's revisit this, though, after a couple of days of focusing on her A times.

[EricaM31]

Here is what happened today thus far:

E 7AM
A 7:30 - 830AM
S 8:30AM - 9:30AM(tried to put her down in her crib awake, she cried, picked up sh pat for 5 minutes asleep with out arms
in swaddle
Y
E 9:30AM- seemed hungry
A 10AM - 11:15AM ( trying new awake time, seemed to be able to last 1:45min...
S 11:30AM - 1:20PM (1 arm out of swaddle seems to fight the swaddle, went in at 12pm httj for 30 minutes, still sleeping
Y
E 1:20PM
A 1:50PM - 3:20PM
S 3:30PM (I think I need to go to awake time 1:45 not 2 hrs)
Y
E 5:20PM
A 5:55PM bedtime routine, bath
E 7PM
S 7:20PM
feed at 11PM, 2AM, 5AM, up at 8AM!!!! wow I guess she's not ready for 4 hour easy!

Tuesday Dec 29th

E 8:08AM
A 8:38AM - 9:24AM tried to put down early didn't work Awake time from eyes open to shut is 1:45
S 9:53AM - 10:45AM (damn!) tried httj didn't work she woke up anyway
Y
E 11AM
A 10:45AM - 11:15AM
S 12:30PM - 1:10PM - tried httj eyes popped open and smiled at me!
Y
E 1:20PM
A 1:10PM - 2:20PM
S 2:40PM (out down but woke back got hands out of swaddle and was sucking on them shh patt till 3:05pm
S 3:05PM, woke up 3:20PM, smiling at me didn't seeem tired at all, kept her up with me
Y
E 4:10PM fell asleep on breast (she never does this!)
S 4:30PM ( don't know why she wouldn't nap today...)

What do you make of this??? I have no idea.  It thought she already went through a growth spurt but maybe not.

[~Sara~]

Okay...let's start afresh from this routine.

Her first nap seems to be on the short side still--and it doesn't look like 1h30 is a good A time for her.  Let's keep all her A times to 1h45 like you mentioned and see how she does.  If the naps shorten suddenly, we've probably crossed the OT line and will need to scale back.  If they lengthen, then we know we've hit her right A time.  If they stay the same, then we'll try to lengthen the A time again.

How did today go?  Did she wake up a lot last night, too?  If so, when and how was she acting upon waking?

[EricaM31]

I think I might be getting A time wrong in the morning, she never wakes and cried in the morning she just coos.  So she could be awake for longer than I think and then when I try to put her down after regular A time she fusses,  I think she might be layinger in her crib awake and quiet and I don't know it.  I guess I'll have to get up and watch her ugh.

The night that I sent you above your last reply she wouldn't nap and then went down quite easy after her feed at 6:20PM but then I fed her in her sleep at 8:20PM and 10:45PM, then she was up at 2AM, 5AM, 6AM, I know she wasn't that hungry at 6AM for sure but it took a 1/2 hour for her to settler herself back to sleep.  Does there daytime naps effect there night time sleep?

Here is yesterday:

Wed dec 30th

E 7:30AM
A 8:00AM - 8:30AM
S 8:45AM - 9:15AM (I guess she was ot)
Y
E 9:15AM
A she wouldn't stop crying either teething or gas?
S 11AM - 1:15PM (slept in car seat, needed to get out and our power was out)
Y
E 1:15PM
A 1:40PM - 2:45PM
S 3PM  - 3:45PM(slept in car seat as I was at my parents and had no criv for her)
Y
A 3:45PM - 4:15PM
E 4:15PM - 4:35PM
A 4:35PM - 5PM
S 5PM - 5:40PM (slept in car seat on the way home)
A 5:40PM - 6:15PM (jolly jumper)
E 6:15PM
A 6:40PM - 7:00PM - bath bed time routine
tried to put her to bed after but was screaming had an upset stomach (heartburn I think), gave some oval went right to sleep
S 7:30PM
DF 10:15PM
awoke at 2:20AM only!!!!
awoke in the morning at 6:45AM left her cooing for 15 minutes

WEdnesday December 31st
E 7AM
A 7:30AM - 7:45AM
S 8AM - 8:45AM (another short nap did not try httj had too many things to do)
Y
E 9:00AM (was crying cuz she was tired but only thing to consoler her was feeding she did not take a full feed, almost
A 9:15AM - 10AM
S 10:15AM -

[EricaM31]

Oops sorry at the end above is the start to today I wrote Wed instead of Thurs.  Where do I go on this qwebsite to find out what all the abreviations mean?  LIKE LO, OT etc

[deb]

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=51772.0

[~Sara~]

So she could be awake for longer than I think and then when I try to put her down after regular A time she fusses,  I think she might be layinger in her crib awake and quiet and I don't know it.

Ahh, yes, we've had that problem, too.  It could very well be what's going on.  Have you noticed anything this morning?

she wouldn't nap and then went down quite easy after her feed at 6:20PM but then I fed her in her sleep at 8:20PM and 10:45PM, then she was up at 2AM, 5AM, 6AM, I know she wasn't that hungry at 6AM for sure but it took a 1/2 hour for her to settler herself back to sleep.  Does there daytime naps effect there night time sleep?

At 3 months, she doesn't need the cluster feeding anymore and should be able to last until the DF.  I'm wondering if 10:45 hits her night sleep in a bad spot and then causes those NWs.  Have you tried doing the DF about 30 minutes sooner? 

And yes, it's true that naps affect night sleep (and vice versa).

[EricaM31]

ya I give her the dreamfeed at different times, I will keep track and see if different times make a difference.

[EricaM31]

So she doesn't need a feed at say 4pm and 6pm or 5pm and 7pm???

[~Sara~]

Tracy recommends dropping cluster feeding at 8 weeks.  Since you're doing the DF, too, I think she should be able to last at least as long from the last feed of the day until the DF (it's only about 3-4h, which is her daytime feeding pattern, too).  So, if she's awake at 7, then she'd be eating at 7, 10, 1, 4, top off at bedtime, and then DF. 

What's happened with us is that the last feed of the day--which is at bedtime--has never really ended up being a full 4h from the last feed--or 3h if on 3h EASY--simply because that would be when he'd need to be sleeping; so we considered it more a top-off until the DF. 

[EricaM31]

I thought it was the 2nd cluster feed dropped at 8 weeks, so they would eat 4pm, 6pm and then drop 8pm by 8 weeks but you are saying last feeding is at 4pm or around there and then a top up before bed.  As an example tonight she woke up from her nap at 4:30PM, I fed her and then top her up before bed so like 6pm?

[~Sara~]

Dropping the cluster feeding by 8 weeks means dropping any cluster feeding; so switching over completely to a 3h EASY (or 3.5/4, what have you).

You can do like you did yesterday; but she can go about 3.5-4h in between feeds, right?  If so, then I would feed based upon that at bedtime.  Whatever you decide to do, the goal is that after she goes to sleep at bedtime, you next feed at the DF, not 2 DFs.  I'm just wondering if doing that twice was disturbing her.  Plus, if she's eating too much in the evenings, it could be upsetting her tummy.

[EricaM31]

Can you give me an example of what EASY would look like?  so I should be getting 5 feeds in plus the dream feed?  No cat nap?  only 3 naps total for the day?  either 3hr or 3.5 hour?  I am confused.  Thanks again for all your help!!!  Happy New Year! 

[EricaM31]

Here is the last 2 days:

WEdnesday December 31st
E 7AM
A 7:30AM - 7:45AM
S 8AM - 8:45AM (another short nap did not try httj had too many things to do)
Y
E 9:00AM (was crying cuz she was tired but only thing to consoler her was feeding she did not take a full feed, almost
A 9:15AM - 10AM
S 10:15AM - 11:12AM
Y
E 12:15PM
A 12:40PM - 1:45PM
S 1:45PM - 2:10 in car
S 2:45PM - 3PM n(shh pat)
E 3:05PM
S 3:30PM - 4PM ( sshh pat woke up suck on her fingers till awake)
Y
A 4:00PM - 4:30PM
S 4:40PM - 6:00PM
Y
E 6PM
A 6-7:30PM
S 8PM (had trouble getting her to sleep, I guess cuz she was OT)
Y
Feed 10:45pm, 2:20AM, 5AM, woke up at 8:15AM

Friday Jan 1 2010!  Start a 3hr 15 min easy

E 8:15AM
A 8:40AM - 9:30AM
S 10AM - 11:35AM
Y
E 11:35AM
A 12:10PM - 2:15PM (wouldn't nap, tried shh patt for 45 min, swing, laying her in her crib on her own..it's a mystery, she didn't cry at all
E 2:15PM
S 2:30PM - 4:20PM
Y
E 4:30PM
A 5:00PM - 6:00PM - bath bed routine
S 6:20PM - woke 20 minutes later sucking hands. shhh pat for 15 minutes
Y
wokeup at 9:45PM, 11AM, 12AM, 2AM, 5AM awake for the day at 6:20AM!!!!  She woke up before I got to dream feed her.
She never wakes up crying, just yells or loud coos.  Maybe it's because she woke up late and went to bed early??
I fed her each of these times except at 11am she went off to sleep on her own.