Author Topic: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...  (Read 15987 times)

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Offline DualTracy

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5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« on: December 30, 2009, 09:39:09 am »
Hello all,

Please forgive me for not using the acronyms - I'm new to writing messages to this board and I haven't learnt them yet!

My son Corey will be six months old on 10 January.  He is happy and healthy and weighed nearly 17 lbs at his last weigh-in, which is exactly at the 50th percentile.  I would put his EASY schedule in, but it varies (I know it shouldn't) and always has.  He wakes up at 7am, almost on the dot, and his activity times are usually 2 hours.  He has three naps, two 45 mins and one 1 1/2-2 hrs, though I never know which of the three will be the longest (it's usually the first or second).  He wakes giggly from all his naps, so I think they're the right length for him.  Early attempts to lengthen the shorter ones were disastrous, and he seems to have his own little internal clock.

He slept through the night for the first time the day he turned three months old, and for the next two months either slept through or woke once and went down again quite easily.  However, the four-month sleep regression hit very hard, and he was waking every other hour.  We managed to get that sorted until he was waking twice - once early on, when my husband put him back down again, and once later, when I fed him (he is breastfed).  PU/PD worked very well with him.

However, over the last two weeks his sleep has gone completely haywire.  He goes down at 9 (I know that the book recommends earlier, but we can't - we live in a noisy flat - and when we have tried he slept very badly), and pops back up within an hour.  I initially thought he was overstimulated, but that is no longer possible - we've slowed down his evenings to a crawl, with no effect.  When he does wake, he screams and screams, and PU/PD has no effect whatsoever - I think it might even be making it worse.  I eventually feed him, and he takes a full feed - but he would eat all day if it were up to him, so I don't know how indicative that is.  He doesn't drop back off to sleep easily, either. We're often up for nearly two hours trying to get him back down, and he wakes again 2-3 hours later.

Last night we bought some Actamil and gave him a bottle, and he downed 2/3 of it after already having been fed for the night, but it had no effect on his sleep.  When he woke I fed him again and then got him to sleep by putting him down 'asleep' and then holding his arms lightly for 15 minutes until he was deeply asleep - which I've never had to do before.  (He puts himself down for naps now by sucking his thumb until he drops off.  He does't seem to be able to do this at night).  I'm destroyed, but he's his usual cheery self this morning, as always!

I was wondering about a growth spurt, but previous ones have lasted less than a week.  He doesn't act hungry during the day, but he would literally eat all day if given the choice, and has always been a good eater.  He's not hot or cold, his nappies aren't dirty, I've dropped his stimulation to nearly nothing, I think he might be hungry but I can't tell.  I've never left him to cry it out.  I feel like I'm doing things horribly wrong but I don't know what.  Please, any suggestions would be wonderfully helpful!

(By the way, we're moving to a house next month, and hopefully that will leave us a bit freer when it comes to noise!)

Thanks for any thoughts,
DualTracy


Offline anna*

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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2009, 11:13:11 am »
I know there is no regular pattern to his routine but could you post just a sample day? I'll stick my neck out and say that if he's only sleeping 10hrs at night it's very, very likely that he's overtired, and that would also explain why he's waking soon after going down and is inconsolable.

He might also be ready for a bit more A time during the day which might help to extend some of those naps. Have you tried white noise in his nursery to drown out other sounds and help him to sleep at an earlier bedtime? As a guide, an 'ideal' routine at 5.5 months might look like this:

E/A: 7am
S: 9.15am
E/A: 11am
S: 1.30pm
E/A: 3pm
S: 5.30pm catnap
A: 6pm
E: 6.45pm
S: 7pm asleep for the night
E: 10.30pm dreamfeed





Offline DualTracy

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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2009, 12:08:53 pm »
Hi Anna*,

Thanks for your comments!  I did try a dreamfeed back when I first started with the Baby Whisperer (he was around 2 months old), but all it did was wake him up!  I gave up after a week straight of waking my already-sleeping baby.  I think it's a good idea in principle, but it didn't work for us.

Here's a typical day:
Wake/eat: 7am
S: 9.30
EA: 11
S: 1
EA: 1.45
S: 4
E: 4.45
catnap: 6.15
bath: 8.30

Roughly!  Yesterday he had two long naps, one 45 min, and no catnap.  That's very normal.

Haven't tried white noise - will look it up!  At the moment it's not noise that wakes him, but it certainly can't hurt.

Best,
DualTracy


Offline anna*

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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2009, 12:39:04 pm »
The routine above would work without a dreamfeed, it's totally fine to leave him to wake naturally. Looking at your routine above, I think you could go for 2.25hrs A time after a long nap and I would definitely try to bring bedtime forward. 4.45-8.30pm with only a little catnap is a really long time, which will be leaving him OT at bedtime. What do you think?





Offline DualTracy

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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2009, 12:57:35 pm »
Hi Anna*,

Thanks again - it's SO nice to have someone to talk to!  (If you know what I mean.)

You're right, it is a long time between that last wake and bedtime.  If I can, I get in a catnap (the ideal is for him to wake up at 6.30 from his final sleep before bed) - 4.45 is a worst-case scenario.  Yesterday he woke at 5.15, which wasn't great but was...okay.

Right again that his activity time after his long nap tends to be longer.  In fact, some days he goes for three hours before he starts to look tired, but that's the exception.  At the moment, the only sign of his rotten nights is that his A time after naps has become an almost exact 2 hours, regardless of the length of his naps.  Here's today so far:

Wake/Eat: 7
S: 9
E/A: 10.30
S: 12.30-?

So I would be willing to bet that the rest of the day will look like this:

E/A: 1.15
S: 3.15
E/A: 4
catnap: 6-6.30

I'm getting so that I dread nights now.  My husband is wonderful and doing what he can, but he is no longer able to get Corey back to sleep - only I seem to be able to do it now, with great difficulty.  Could it be a separation anxiety thing?  I never really thought about that until just now.

Also I should add that when he seems to be extra drooly/chewy we give him Calpol, and that we've stopped swaddling him because he started to fight it so hard - he seems much happier now in his sleeping bag.  He never took a pacifier, although we tried with about every variety there is!  He's a consummate thumbsucker.  I tired to figure out what type of baby he is, but found it very difficult because he's still so young (many of the descriptions seemed more useful for describing toddlers).  I'd guess he's somewhere between Textbook and Spirited.  He's hyperalert, but not in a bad way - he notices EVERYTHING and always has, but it doesn't bother him like I gather it would a Touchy baby.

Whew!  Can you see how relieved I am to be on this forum?  Feel free to gag me if necessary...

Best,
DualTracy


Offline anna*

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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2009, 13:04:43 pm »
He's really young for separation anxiety, so I'm still betting on OT. Two long naps plus a catnap is perfect, so I think that the late bedtime is the culprit - it's really worth trying to get a 12 hour night. I would try to make sure he is not awake for more than 2.5hrs before bedtime, or 1.5hrs after a catnap.

The other thing to check is on how you are doing PUPD? Do you hold him until he is calm? At this age I would hold him for not more than a minute, then lay him back down even if he is still crying. Try to settle him in his cot and pick up again if he is not showing any signs of settling. The thing with PUPD, is whatever you do, don't cave and feed. If you're doing it at bedtime or for a night waking, keep going until he is asleep. You can feed him at the next waking - what you DON"T want to do is PUPD for a little while and then feed. It just sends mixed messages.





Offline DualTracy

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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2009, 13:12:17 pm »
The more I think about it, the more I think you're right obout overtiredness.  The problem is logistical (and any ideas are warmly welcomed...)  Our current flat is about 450 sq. ft.  At the moment we go to bed when Corey does, for the simple reason that our being awake continuously woke him up.  When we first started going to bed at 8.30, it was like paradise, because his longest sleep was at the start and we got a nice long snooze.  Now, of course, that's out the window.

My husband doesn't get home until 6.20, so in order to get him to bed at 7.30 he'd have just over an hour between getting home and bedtime.  This will all become moot in a month or so - we're just a few weeks away from moving into our first house, which has the bedrooms upstairs (hallelujah!), but until then we're sort of trapped.

Any ideas?

Thanks again - you're rapidly becoming my favourite person in the world!

Best,
DualTracy


Offline anna*

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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2009, 13:34:53 pm »
So are you guys all sleeping in the same room?





Offline DualTracy

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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2009, 13:47:54 pm »
Nope.  It was one bedroom, then it was partitioned by the owners with some rubbish thin board into one small room and one tiny room.  His room is first on the right through the front door, our is second, bathroom is straight ahead, lounge on left and kitchen off the lounge.  Altogether it's almost a perfect square.  A small one.


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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2009, 15:44:24 pm »
If he's in his own room I would investigate white noise - you can turn it up loud and it will muffle all the other noises from the flat. I don't know where you are in the world and I had the Little Sleepyhead CD (UK based) which has tracks on it like 'Tumble Drier', 'Vacuum Cleaner' etc. Other parents put on a fan all night (although you can't control the volume on that one) or tune a radio in to static noise. We played 'tumble drier' on a loop through Stan's naps when he was little, so that a ring on the doorbell or a noisy neighbour wouldn't wake him. I'm sure you could download a track off the internet and play it on a loop - you could just play it until your bedtime, then sneak in and turn it off when things are quieter.





Offline DualTracy

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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2009, 16:41:50 pm »
We'll definitely look into it.  In the meantime, we'll just try to get through the next few nights as well as we can!  I think it will take some time before he stops waking straight after going down, unfortunately... :(  And I'm still not sure why PU/PD has stopped working.  My husband has some time off coming soon, so maybe we can try changing his bedtime then.

Best,
DualTracy


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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2009, 16:49:55 pm »
How does he settle for naps and at the beginning of bedtime, do you use PUPD at those times? If it is OT that is the problem here, it is very common that PUPD will not work - or is much harder to make it work - with an overtired baby. Waking soon after going down is a really classic sign of OT (overtiredness), so you may find that getting him down earlier just knocks that problem on the head.

You know, it could be something else that is the problem but this is one factor that is just jumping out, and it would be odd to start looking at other causes when he's doing a 14 hour day! If he's still having probs after that, we can look at it again.





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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2009, 17:17:54 pm »
That's the weird thing - he settles himself for naps (thanks to PU/PD) with minimal intervention.  Sometimes he goes down all giggly and chatty, and I leave him to it - if he starts to cry, I only have to pick him up once, put him down, and he's away.  I feed him to sleep for bedtime, and again, no sweat - either he is asleep or he puts himself to sleep soon after.  That's why the whole thing just seems so strange to me, I guess.  He NEVER wakes before 45 minutes at least during naps, but all of a sudden he can't sleep for longer than half an hour at night?  I guess I thought that if he were overtired, he'd be overtired all the time, not just at night.  And you're right, PU/PD is nearly impossible with him at night now (though, again, works fine during the day).

Does this make sense, or am I describing an impossible scenario?  I'm so tired now that it wouldn't surprise me at all...



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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2009, 17:23:00 pm »
Overtiredness accumulates throughout the day, so it's not at all an impossible scenario. If he's really tired at bedtime he'll conk out but then wake up screaming a bit later. Has he started solids yet? I guess another possibility is that it has become habitual in which case you could rule that out quite quickly - I would suggest staying in his room after he has fallen asleep and after about 30 mins just stroke his cheek. You don't want to wake him, just cause him to stir in his sleep. If he does wake it's not the end of the world because you will be right there, and can (we hope) help him to get back to sleep by usng shush-pat or whatever you can find that will soothe him before he gets a full head of screaming steam up.





Offline DualTracy

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Re: 5 1/2 month old has forgotten how to sleep...
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2009, 18:45:20 pm »
Okay.  He hasn't started solids yet but will shortly - will that cause even more disruption?  I think I mentioned we gave him a bottle with formula last night and he sucked it down - it didn't seem to make any kind of impression, good or bad (which is kind of a good thing).  Should we continue doing that?

I think sleeping badly and waking quickly after going down is a habit now, but it's not the same time every night - sometime between 9.30 and 11.  Ish.  Is it worth waking him?