Author Topic: Long NW's  (Read 23684 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Jenn+Ethan+Emily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 107
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6377
  • So Big!
  • Location: Alberta, Canada
Long NW's
« on: January 06, 2010, 15:54:25 pm »
My DS has not been a good sleeper for quite some time now. I definitely think I am part of the cause of this. First I would rush into his room everytime he made a peep. Now I am just trying to leave him when he is not genuinely upset, but I was leaving him for about 15 minutes before going into him. Now I have removed myself completely and have been letting him do his thing until he genuinely needs me. The problem is, he has several NW's and he will keep himself up for a long time before he cries and I go and settle him (this means, patting his back for a few minutes and then waiting in the room, he seems to have a little bit of SA). He is awake and always seems so happy talking away in his crib. Last night he was awake for at least 45 min at each of his NW's before he got upset. I am fearful that over the holidays he might have developed a pacifier addiction. He rarely used it before but over the holidays, I kept giving it to him to keep him quiet at 3am when we were sleeping in the room next to a two and three year old. Now he seems to want it all the time. I do not give it to him during the day but he will cry for it at night. In the middle of the night, he will not get it himself. I fear that I am not strong enough to take it away from him. What I cannot understand, is why his NW's are so long and so happy??? He wakes at least 8 times a night (and I would say that is  good night).



Offline ~Sara~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 264
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 9268
  • Location: Houston, Texas
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 16:27:23 pm »
Hi Jenn...just popped over here from your Naps thread and thought I'd offer my two cents' worth.

Personally, when we get long (~1h), happy (i.e. talking to self, cooing) night wakings it's because we need an increase in A time.  Granted, we usually notice the need for an increase in his naps first--naps get shorter--and then his body exhibits it in the night to really catch our attention.  Then if neither is heeded, then we head over into the OT territory after a couple of days and we end up with a mess to clean up.  That said, I think the multiple wakings is OT.

I say all of this to you with great trepidation because of the difficult time he's had in increasing his A times.  I don't want to add fuel to the fire.

However, if you think the pacifier has turned into a prop--versus a comfort item that he can control--then I would wean it; or if you think he likes it, encourage him to find it.  If he's not really used it before the holidays, then I don't think there's any point in introducing it, tbh.

What does his routine look like now?

Perhaps I'm misreading this; so hopefully other moms will chime in, too :)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 16:30:48 pm by tersaseda »
*formerly tersaseda*

 




Offline Jenn+Ethan+Emily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 107
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6377
  • So Big!
  • Location: Alberta, Canada
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2010, 17:25:47 pm »
Hi Sara! I am scared to wean the paci now because I am a weak person lol. I know this sounds bad but I really cannot stand to hear him cry and for some reason now he screams his head of when I do not give it to him. Maybe I just need to suck it up and deal with it  but I thought at this point, he should be able to find it himself. I have not made a decision on this matter yet....

As for a routine, I really do not even feel like we have one right now. These last few days have been such a mess. I cannot get him to nap for very long therefore we are getting 4 naps in the day, terrible, I know. The mornings I have been doing a 3hr A time and trying to increase it as the morning nap seems to be the only one that I have any luck extending. Other then that, we have been waking up around 7:15 and going to bed no later then 6:30. I am really trying to work on his afternoon which has no routine or really anything as I cannot seem to get an A time to work for us at all.

Wake 7:15
E:bottle at 7:20
E: solids at 8
A: until 10:15
S: 10:15-11 (give or take 5 min) then wakes usually I can get him to go for another 30 min
E: 11:45
E: solids at 12:30
from here....I cannot even say....sometimes he goes right back to sleep at this point for 35 min, other times he will seem happy and not sleep for another 2 hours...
E: again at 5:30
S: asleep by 6:30



Offline Tweakster

  • Tweakster extraordinaire
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 444
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 18877
  • Location:
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2010, 20:03:34 pm »
Hi there Jenn, sorry to see you back here :-(  I agree with Sara though - I think you need to push his A times a bit - at his age he should be on 2x 1.5 hour naps and sleeping 11-12 at night.

I think you might have some luck with set naps if you stick to a training method like PU/PD or GW.  I think if you have to pat him at night for settling and/or plug his paci...it's time to get a bit tougher.  He is heading into prime SA territory and it will only get worse, trust me Finn is there now and it's a mess. 

The set naps might work to get him caught up on his A time to where he should be (I did this at 6 mths with Finn so we could start to drop the CN, wasn't that pretty but in the end it worked and nights got much better).  It helped set his body clock which was all over the map.

I would try to keep his wake time consistent and then nap him at 3 hours from his wake time.  Then I would try 2 hr 45 for the next A time, but if you get a short nap, aim for 3 hours the following day.  And start from there.

So:
Wake 7:15
Nap @ 10:15 - 11:45 (A = 3)
Nap @ 2:30 - 4 (A = 2 hr 45) - I give a slightly less A time here because I often found with Finn that when I pushed the morning A, the middle A shrunk a bit until he was 'caught up'
Asleep by 7
Stick to a 12 hour day, even slightly less when he's OT or has a lot of NW - or naps go very badly.

The biggest and most important piece is to be consistent and be firm.  It just means that you know what is best for your LO and you are going to help him get to where he needs to be.  And that means sleeping independently without props or too much assistance from you.  You are not weak Jenn, you are scared and there is a big difference :-)  We're here for you, so you can do this!!!
The tweaking never stops!

Offline Jenn+Ethan+Emily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 107
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6377
  • So Big!
  • Location: Alberta, Canada
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2010, 22:14:34 pm »
Today we have done a 3hr morning A time which gave us a nap of 1hr 15 minutes. Is that OT or UT? this afternoon we have gone for the about 2hr and 50 min by the time he actually got to sleep. He is napping right now so I am not sure how long this one will be.

I have never found PU/PD to really work with him. So I am more doing PD/WO..ish...? Once I put him in his crib for the night, I have never had to pick him up before morning. As soon as I walk in the room, he stops crying so I have never had to PU to stop crying or anything. I guess I will need to get rid of the paci. I feel like I am torturing him. At some level, it seems like he will somehow be scarred by this...ugh, I am scared, you are right. He just never used the stupid thing before and now he seems hooked after like two weeks.

Okay, I will work at this.  Thank you!




Offline Jenn+Ethan+Emily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 107
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6377
  • So Big!
  • Location: Alberta, Canada
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2010, 15:06:45 pm »
So yesterday looked like this:

Wake 8am we had a late wake up here, DS still very tired,
A: until 11
S: 11-12:15
A: until 3:05
S: 3:05- 3:40
A: until 6:50
S: asleep at 7pm

So naps were not great. I do not know what the 1hr 15 minute nap is, OT or UT.  The pm nap only lasted 35 min. OT is suspect. Our night was great though. DS slept from 7pm to 8 pm and then he woke and fussed for a minute and went back to sleep on his own without me going in there. Then he didn't wake until 1am!!!! At this point he fussed and talked for about 15 minutes and then he went back to sleep AGAIN without me going in there. At 4:10 he woke up again and talked for about 35 minutes before I switched on the video monitor and he was all scrunched up in the corner of his crib without his blankets on. I went into the room and moved him down and put his blankets back on him and left and he went right back to sleep until 7:15. I probably did not need to go into his room at 4:10 but i really do not want him to get sick and his room is cold. Excuses, I know. So i definitely think the night went well. We have not had that much sleep since November and that was just for one night!!!

I just don't know if I should extend the morning A time a little bit more or if I should just leave the morning nap at 1hr 15 min since at least it was longer then usual. Also, you were saying that if i get a short PM nap, I should extend that A time a little bit. Given that the nap was only 35 min. do you still think i should extend that A time?



Offline Tweakster

  • Tweakster extraordinaire
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 444
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 18877
  • Location:
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2010, 23:20:16 pm »
Hi there, to be honest I don't think I would push that middle A until I had a good solid 1.5 hour morning nap.  Now he could be well-rested after his 1 hr 15 but it would be risky to push him until we know for sure.  So glad to hear about your night!  The more you let him self-settle, the better he will get at it!
The tweaking never stops!

Offline Jenn+Ethan+Emily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 107
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6377
  • So Big!
  • Location: Alberta, Canada
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2010, 16:55:37 pm »
Our night last night went very well also. Another 9hr stretch without me having to go into him. He woke up several times during that period but I never had to go into him. Our am nap yesterday was only 1hr 10 minutes. Should I be working to extend this? and if so, should I increase or decrease A time? His morning A time is 3hrs right now. I kept his afternoon A time at 2hrs 45min and got a good 1.5hr nap. So you were definitely right about keeping that A time the same length. DS went to bed by 7pm last night so it was just under a 12hr day. However, he woke at 8:30pm where he was crying and I had to go into him but from there he "slept" until 5:40 (waking in between but resettling by himself). I could not get him to go back to sleep after that. He was completely content playing in his crib. I left him there for a hour before getting him up for the day and he talked happily to himself to whole time. Usually he gets up at 7:15am. Honestly I would prefer him to sleep 9hr stretches and wake up early rather then sleep later and be up the whole night. Should I be doing anything differently because of the EW or just leaving him as it is and going to bed earlier tonight to keep the 12hr day?



Offline Tweakster

  • Tweakster extraordinaire
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 444
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 18877
  • Location:
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2010, 18:52:52 pm »
Hi there Jenn, it seems like he might be shaving his nap because of his better nights, he might not be as tired.  Perhaps if you pushed him out a teensy bit more you might get a slightly longer AM nap and eliminate the EW.  I would probably try a slightly earlier bedtime as that first waking at 8:30 might have been a bit OT if he had a long A time prior.  Could you live with 6:30 or 6:45 for a while?  That would mean for him to be asleep by that time, rather than just in bed by then.
The tweaking never stops!

Offline Jenn+Ethan+Emily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 107
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6377
  • So Big!
  • Location: Alberta, Canada
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2010, 00:04:09 am »
Yeah of course I can do that! We were putting him to bed by 6:30 before so I am sure we can definitely do it again. I will try to push out that morning A time a little bit and see where we end up with his nap. The afternoon nap seems to be working well with a 2hr 45min A time before. He had another 1.5 hr pm nap today. His am nap was still 1hr 10 min.



Offline Jenn+Ethan+Emily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 107
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6377
  • So Big!
  • Location: Alberta, Canada
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2010, 14:41:43 pm »
We had DS sleeping by 6:40pm last night. He slept with resettling himself until 1am which is great. Then at 1am he was crying and crying so I went into him and he was just screaming his head off. I honestly did not know what to do as he has never done that before in the night. I picked him up and as soon as he stopped crying, I put him back down. I had to pat his back to keep him calm. When he calmed down, I left the room and he immediately started crying again so I went back into him and patted his back again. When he calmed down, I tried to leave again but he started again. So I patted his back and then stepped back and stayed beside his crib. He went to sleep eventually and then I left. From that waking until he went back to sleep was 2hrs. DS then slept until 6:40am which is still early for us but totally fine especially given that it was 12hrs from when he went to bed. I am not really sure what to think of that NW. Just the fact that he was crying so much leads me to believe that something else was going on for him. Is a NW like that generally a OT or UT thing or would it maybe be something else. I cannot really think what the problem might have been but you know with babies, it can be anything!



Offline ~Sara~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 264
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 9268
  • Location: Houston, Texas
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2010, 15:50:16 pm »
Do you think he's starting to get separation anxiety?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=62612.0

I think his naps look good overall, but agree with Wendy to maybe try and extend that first A time a bit.
*formerly tersaseda*

 




Offline Tweakster

  • Tweakster extraordinaire
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 444
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 18877
  • Location:
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2010, 17:48:34 pm »
Hi there Jenn, NW like that for us - out of character and out of the ordinary screaming - is teething, discomfort (tummy trouble from solids?) or hunger.  Could it be any of those things?  There's a growth spurt again at around 9 mths, he could be hitting it early.

If not I would suggest separation anxiety like Sara said, or just a random event (bad dream or disoriented for some reason...or just he woke and couldn't get back to sleep...).

If it continues we will revisit it but I think you are making great progress!!!
The tweaking never stops!

Offline Jenn+Ethan+Emily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 107
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6377
  • So Big!
  • Location: Alberta, Canada
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2010, 18:20:23 pm »
I was wondering about a food discomfort as he ate broccoli at dinner time and seemed gassy afterwards (he usually does not have this problem with broccoli ::) ) It could have been something like that. He has seemed like he has been teething for the last month but no sign of anything. Possible that it could be SA, as he was frantically making sure I was still there. I just did some reading into SA so I can make sure that I deal with it properly! I extending our morning A time by 10 min. today and still got a 1hr 10min nap. we shall see what tomorrow brings! Thank you both so much for your encouragement!



Offline Tweakster

  • Tweakster extraordinaire
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 444
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 18877
  • Location:
Re: Long NW's
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 15:53:45 pm »
Hi there Jenn, yep gas could do it, particularly broccoli which is a known culprit.  Really if it is a one of, just chalk it up to baby stuff hehe.

SA hit for us right at 9 mths, and it was like an instant overnight thing.  All of a sudden he doesn't want to be put down, he is crawling after us hanging off our legs most days.  It must have been something in his brain that went 'click' and all of a sudden he developed object permanence and SA.

Let us know how it's going!
The tweaking never stops!