9 month old very unsettled STILL

[2sweetpeas]

Hello,

Can any one help my nine month old LO sleep for longer?

He has milk and soya protien intolerence and since being on Nutramigen (for 1 month) is much much happier in the day. But nights are really bad (and have been for months!!!) . I have chronic sleep deprivation with migraines and low immunity, please help!!! This has been typical for say the last week or so.

Take baby downstairs at about 6.30am

9am breakfast (cereal in 4oz milk)
about 9.45am sleep in cot, no dummy (pick up/put down for about 30 mins)
wake 10.45pm milk 3oz
lunch 12pm- about 200g of food
about 1.30pm sleep
wake 2.30pm
milk 4oz
Dinner 4pm- about 200g of food
bath, massage,milk (3oz)
6.30pm Pu/Pd- can take up to 1.5 hours.
Usually asleep by 8pm
wake 8.30pm, pat back to sleep or pu/pd
wake 11pm milk takes full feed. screams if i do not feed him, back to sleep
wake 1.30am ish screaming, difficult to console. In and out of sleep till about 5 am
5am milk
sometimes goes to sleep, sometimes not.

I guess he is OT, but cant break the cycle. Also, is it ok to dilute down his late night feed in water? I cant increase his calrie intake in day as he simply wont take more and will get windy.

Thanks so much xxxx

   

[Peek-a-boo]

Hi there--

I'm not sure of the answer, so hoping some one wise comes along , but wanted to ask a few questions . . .

How long have you been using pu/pd to settle him?  Was there a time in the past when he fell asleep without either props or pu/pd?  When he does finally settle with pu/pd, are you in the room or out?  If in the room, are you touching him? Shushing?

Is he teething?

Is he waking on his own after 1 hour for naps?

You mention no dummy for his first nap--does that mean no dummy at all?  Or does he have a dummy for some sleeps?

[2sweetpeas]

Thanks girls,

- He has always slept with dummy and patting so I am weaning him off these using Pu/PU. Have been doing it consisitently for a week. He only settles when I am in the room, placing a firm hand on him and shusshing. He is very insecure.

-Today he slept 1 hour in morning and 2 1/2 in afternoon (wake at 3pm), so this was much better.
(however he chews a cloth so I hope this is not another prop?- he just cannot sleep without something in his mouth)

-I started pu/pd this evening at 6.30pm and he was alseep by 7.00pm
-He woke at 8.15pm and I did pu/pd for 15 mins and he is now settled.

-Dont think teething as no salivation/red cheeks etc but cant be sure. Think its more habitual from when he was on the milk he was allergic to and woke every half hour at that time.

You say the last A time is too long, please could you suggest a sleep routine for him? Many thanks xxxx

[2sweetpeas]

Also what do you think of the night feed? Shall I water it down?

[2sweetpeas]

Sounds great. Yes he has a cloth, but still cannot settle without me touching him- I agree that this is the problem. I will dilute the feed tonight (3 scoops powder in 5oz water).

He is nowhere near standing up. DS1 stood up at 15 months, so likely weve got a while for that wth DS2., which is not such a bad thing!!

Thanks xxx

[2sweetpeas]

Thanks Jane,

Ok, I will try just pu for a moment at put down even if he is still crying. Thing is he is so figety and constantly arches his back so  I need to turn him on his side hold his bodydown to calm his body to prepare him for sleep, otherwise he does not settle.
I have tried white noise in the past without much sucess. Is calming music ok to use instead?

BTW last night was better:

Sleep by 7.00pm
Wake 8.15pm
back to sleep
Wake 11.45pm (diluted milk, took very little)
back to sleep til 5am!!! Feed

So I think pu/pd must be taking some effect

Thanks so muchxxx

[2sweetpeas]

Thanks Jane,

Shall i continue to hold his body down to calm him, or just do pu/pd only untill he is so tired he sleeps?! x

[2sweetpeas]

Well a really really bad night last night. This is typically what happens, things go ok for a night or two and then really bad. I knew it was gonna be bad as he pooed 7 times yesterday and was very windy. All night he was passing foul smelling wind and screaming.

I am sure he has a problem with wheat products and also red peppers, on top of his milk inteolerence.

Messed up now and he slept for 10 mins this am and could not resettle, tried for 40 mins.

How can I avoid AP when he is so distressed?? How do I avoid OT? Resorted to dummmy and patting at 3am as we were both exhusted xx

[scarlettsmom]

Big Big ((((hugs)))).  Poor little man, and poor you.

I know how frustrating this can be.  It does sound like there is more than OT going on here.  Even if it's just a milk allergy, it can take 6-8 weeks for the proteins to get completely out of his system and for your LO to start really healing.  Typically sleep times/night is the absolute worst because he isn't moving around, not distracted, so if there are GI issues he's very focused on them. 

Why do you think there could wheat/pepper issues?  I missed how old your LO is?  Perhaps popping this over to the Food Allergies board might be more beneficial for now?  We have wonderful mamas over there who are great helping out.

My own DD2 went through a terrible time healing from her allergies (she actually had over 20 reactions when tested!  has outgrown almost all of them at 17 months though!).  I will be honest with you.  When they are hurting, and exhausted, and we're exhausted and the whole family is feeling the impact.......EASY takes a backseat.  Because I was nursing during the worst of it I would actually bring her into bed with us in the middle of the night just to get some rest.  Yes, we totally had to work it out later on BUT it kept me sane, and I could give attention to my toddler and night bite my DH's head off every 2 minutes.

You may want to consider scrapping the schedule and doing whatever to get your LO some sleep.   Concentrate on working on what allergies/intolerances he may have, and go from there.   It could be a simple hypoallogenic formula change - to Alimentium, or even something more broken down like Neocate (that's what my DD2 could tolerate when we supplemented) or Elecare.

Have you seen a ped allergist?

More (((hugs)))

[scarlettsmom]

Oh, whoops - just saw the thread title (9 month old).

At this age it's pretty easy to eliminate any suspected allergens since he relies mainly on formula for nutrition.  If you suspect an allergy to something that he is eating, get rid of it asap.  My DD2 ate turkey, pears and peas only for I can't remember how many months!

xo

[2sweetpeas]

Thanks for this. We are just seeing a normal paed. Nutramigen has helped a lot and he can go for days with hardly any wind and is happy (which is why I am attempting the pu/pd.

Then every few days he cries all day, eats little, and when he poos he is relieved for a while and then it starts again until the next poo. No straining, just sloppy wet, smelly poos and smelly wind. Yesterday he had pasta in a red pepper sauce and the pooing started soon after. He has a similar thing with weetabix, but seems ok with oats (although these have gluten in too dont they?).

Same thing happened last week with tuna and red peppers. Thats why I suspect wheat and/or red peppers.

He is best on fruit,  gluten free cereals, and sweet potato and buttenut squash. But this is such a limited diet!!

Since nutramigen his apettite has increased- he has about 20oz milk and 500-600g food each day

xxx

[scarlettsmom]

Then every few days he cries all day, eats little, and when he poos he is relieved for a while and then it starts again until the next poo. No straining, just sloppy wet, smelly poos and smelly wind. Yesterday he had pasta in a red pepper sauce and the pooing started soon after. He has a similar thing with weetabix, but seems ok with oats (although these have gluten in too dont they?).
xxx

That's exactly how it was with my DD2 when she had a reaction to something - and she would have mucous in her stool as well (at the very worst with the milk she would have blood in her stool).  There may be a gluten link.  Are you in the US?  I know they will test early.  DD2 was tested around 6/7 months.

It can be VERY frustrating and limiting, but it's so much better to limit, let LO heal, and then reintroduce later on.  Most LOs get much much better around 12-18 months.

((hugs)).  Perhaps remove the gluten and anything else suspect, give it a few good days and then resume pu/pd?  That's great news about the Nutramigen btw!

[scarlettsmom]

Oh, regarding oats - they don't *actually* have gluten in them.  They are usually referred to as part of gluten because of cross contamination.  However, from what I've been reading (have recently needed to go gluten free myself!) practices have started to include separting the oats so they have no gluten contact (if that makes sense?)  You can call the company to ask....

[2sweetpeas]

Thanks for your message. He has still not settled and now has another chest and ear infection. We have only had 5 "good" nights (=less then 3 nw) since he was 4 months old (since I stopped BF). Also, he sleeps with his eyes open and usually wakes every 20 mins. It is SO frustrating. I have not had a decent nights sleep for 6 months. With paracetamol and/or neurofen he can sleep 1.5 hours at a time at night. With Medised, he can sleep up to 2.5 hours. Also, so much AP going on as he always seems to be in physical discomfort.

We are getting blood test for gluten/soy/milk intolerence and anaemia in 2 weeks.

But its almost like he has a sleep disorder. Does/has anyone else felt this way about thier child? DS1 has so many digestive issues too, but he could sleep 12 hours a night no probs. Its almost like DS2 does not fall into a deep sleep - eyes open, wakes at the slightest sound, wakes very very frequently although he is clearly very tired.

Any comment welcomed xxx

[Peek-a-boo]

Sleeping with his eyes open does sounds sleep disorder-ish.  Have you discussed this possibility with your doctor?