17.5 months - how much do I cut the nap?

[mmom]

He wakes at 6/6:30.  For the last few days, he has woken at 6:15 on the dot.  That is why nap time has been 12:15.  So pushing until 1 would make an almost 7 hour A.  I would have to do a shorter A after that.

[LucySol]

yes i can see that. might be worth a go then,it cant get much worse eh?

[babybarr]

i have heard it said many times that a 10 hr night is OT but its not to us.its just the amount 'left' after the length of D nap to make up the sleep in a 24 hr period iyswim?

This is us too.  That explains why when we were getting 2hr naps we had rubbish short nights.

We've pushed the nap to 11.45 which has actually been making DS sleep longer so it was the right thing to do but I also know that too long a nap backfires on us aswell.  That's why I'm starting with 1.25hrs. Why don't you compromise - push the nap later and let him sleep and then bed at 7 and see what happens - do it for a few days.  If then it's not working you could try shortening the nap - at either earlier or later time.

[mmom]

Thanks ladies - everyone, I appreciate all of the different points of view and feedback.

I think I need somewhat of a compromise, because he is already tired and it is 11:45.  I can't see making it until 1 without a melt down.  I think I will aim for 12:30 and try bedtime at 7.  Not sure if that will work, but worth a shot.  Unless that is not enough of a compromise?  Laura, were you thinking something different?

[Mashi]

If he's already tired and it is 1145 -- that makes 5.5hours of A -- then I would put him down now. And, I would aim to have him in bed for 5.5h of A every day then, trying as best as possible to keep it really consistent.  He should sleep 1.5h for you on this A time I would think, going on his past nap behaviour; so waking at 115, that still leaves a good 5 - 5.5 before your ideal 630 bedtime.   

Otherwise, I think you are pushing him into OT, then leaving a shorter space before bed, which may give you some great catch up nights, but in the long run, isn't that good for him, kwim?

[LucySol]

i think it depends on your child and what kind of sleep they generally do over a 24 hr period.A 6.30 bedtime is no way an ideal bedtime for me and i dont think it is for anyone who has a low sleep need child with a decent nap in the day.That would mean a stupid EW surely.For a child who sleeps13/14 hrs in a 24 hr period then yes i can see how that will work.

if you want to get to a 1 ish naptime to be able to get a 7pm ish bedtime and are worried about OT then do it a lot more slowly than i did.push him in 15 min increments every few days till you get the time you want and avoid the OT.

i just found i was getting nowhere with A times of 5/5.5 hrs.i was needing to have early bedtimes which gave me another early morning so the cycle continued.i think whatever you decide to do you do need to push your day along a bit.forget cutting the nap,work on what bedtime you want to get a wake up you are happy with and go from there.

im not trying to persuade you to do what i have done cos i went drastic! But what works for lo's with average/high sleep needs does not work for our lo's.

[mmom]

Thanks ladies.  I did put him down at 12:30, which was only 15 minutes later than I have been putting him down.  I woke him at 2, which will be 30 minutes shorter than yesterday.  But his nap was 1.25 hours the day before.  I am going to have DH put him down at 6:30, only to see if we are missing something with the shorter A time at the end of the day.  We have been putting him down at 5.25 hours with the intention of him sleeping at 5.5 hours and that has turned into a 6 hour A every night.  I wonder if Mashi is right and he will fall asleep that early.  If not, the worse case scenario is that he is asleep by 7 or even 7:30 (given how long it is taking him to fall asleep every night).  If the shorter A after the nap helps, I will push in increments until nap is at 1 and bedtime at 7.  Hopefully, this gives me a 7-6 kind of thing that I was getting before.  (I wasn't getting those exact times, but a 1.5 hour nap and 11 hour nights).  If my night doesn't lengthen or my mornings get earlier, then I guess I will be back to the drawing board.  I have been afraid that my LO would wake earlier if I put him down earlier, but it is the only thing I haven't tried.  Well, that and cutting the nap.  So now I am trying 2 things.   

[babybarr]

Hugs Kara, I know how difficult this is and I have to say I completely agree with Lucy's point below

But what works for lo's with average/high sleep needs does not work for our lo's.

I've tried everything under the sun. Today I still stuck to our normal nap time of 11.45 and I cut it to 1.25hrs.  He took about 15mins to settle to bed tonight (which for us ALWAYS means UT) so I'm either expecting a crib party at 2am or a 4am start - bedtime for us is 6.30pm cos of our wake up time.

I meant for you either to try the later nap as long as he want theory or the normal nap and cut it !! I know they are completely different angles but I figured maybe one or the other would work!  I think with pushing the nap later you'll probably find he acts really tired around his normal time - we get this - I try and just hold out a bit longer with really low key activities, and do you know what - just as you finally crack it he'll want to stop napping altogether!!! 

[mmom]

Laura, I don't disagree with Lucy's statement at all.  I have totally had to come to terms with my LO not being in the norm.  That is why I pushed the nap today, rather than putting him down.  It wasn't his usual nap time either.  It was much earlier.  But that is also why I wanted to try an earlier bedtime.  With such a long A in the morning, we have never tried a drastically shorter A in the afternoon.

DH said our LO didn't fall asleep until 7.  He said it sounded like a party in there for the 1st 20 minutes he was in his crib.  So that short of an A doesn't work.  But he did fall asleep within a 5 hour A, which is a huge improvement given how long it has been taking him to settle at night.  I guess we will find out tomorrow morning if that worked.

[babybarr]

I hope you got a good night... It'll be interesting to see what he does, but at least he was asleep by 7. 

Well as expected we had NW around 12.30am where DS kept saying up up up!!  That's the worst!

I've told my mum to only let him sleep 1.25hrs and make sure he's up at a decent time as I have work this eve and he needs to go down well.

[MLK]

Haven't had time to read all the posts in detail but just wanted to say that we often get 10 or 10,5 hour nights, but that's generally after a 2 or 2.5 hour nap. It's just that he only need 12.5 hours a day, so if he has longer nap, then that's all the sleep he needs that night. Not OT. I think low sleep needs kids have different sleep patterns to others, and unfortunately we can't make thme sleep longer.

It usually boils down to this: Decide whether you want a long nap or a long night and adjust your day. Unfortunately they won't do both. We chose the longer nap and later bedtime/shorter night with both my 2 boys, because it suited our family better. But for others it might be the other way round.

[babybarr]

Decide whether you want a long nap or a long night and adjust your day.

Ok and then do fixed times for nap and length of nap??  I would go for the longer nights but I have tried so desperately to get him to nap longer... I guess it's just not meant to be!

[mmom]

Laura, I would want a long night over a long nap too. My concern is cutting the day sleep too much, too soon though.  I would rather know the exact combo and go from there.

So, we had an incident this morning that completely wrecked us.  I woke at 4 am to see that the temp in my LO's room was 62 degrees.  I went in to turn up his heater and on the way out, I tripped over a book and slammed into his changing table.  (I am so mad at DH right now for leaving books on the floor.  But that is another story.)  Of course this woke him and rattled him.  He cried for the 1st half hour and then had a party for the next half hour.  He fell back asleep from about 5-6:20.  So despite bedtime being at 7 and wake 6:20, he was awake in there. I am lost as to what to do today and the worst part is my FIL is watching him because I have an ultrasound that I think it is going to take a while.  I am going to have to instruct him to put my LO down at least 1/2 hour before I want him sleeping, because my FIL is horrible at following directions.

So what time do I aim for?  I feel like I need to allow a 2 hour nap because of 2  - 10 hour nights in a row.  Am I wrong in thinking this?  I have been doing a 6 hour A (yesterday 6 hours, 15 minutes), but I am also wondering if that is pushing it as well.  Opinions please?

[babybarr]

Well I know exactly where you are coming from and this is how we end up in a hole I think!  I guess the thinking is - if you give him the 2hr nap he'll have 10.5hrs or so at night regardless of whether he slept badly last night??  BUT i would probably do a 2hr nap today - at 12 or a bit before and then usual bed and then start afresh tomorrow knowning he is not OT.

I am so mad at DH right now for leaving books on the floor.  But that is another story.)

MEN!!!!!

[mmom]

Thanks Laura.  I was thinking something similar.  Yeah, ready to kill my DH.  Oh, and sorry about your rough night.  Hopefully, you have a better day.