9 month old standing in crib and not STTN

[cameron09]

My LO just learned to stand in his crib and bounce a few weeks ago.  Since then, he seems to take longer to settle to bed for night.  Usually it takes me 4-6 PU/PD attempts in a period of 15 -30 min.  It's like he gets frustrated in not being able to sleep so decides to stand up.

I can handle this, but the same thing is happening in the night.  Currently, we have one NW usually around 3-4am.  I have been feeding a half bottle and he will settle right back to sleep (a problem I need to take on soon that happened from travelling/holidays).  However, 10 minutes later we hear him again crying - I go in and he's standing jumping up/down.  I put him back down, he fuses, I wait a few minutes, go back in, he's standing etc.  If I hold him a bit longer (few minutes) then put him down he often will finally fall asleep.  Is this bad?  How should I be addressing this?  When I pick him up, he always curls right into me as if to say help me get back to sleep. 

Is he going to standing half in his sleep?  Sometimes I wonder if he gets there unintentionally and is then "stuck".  When he's playing he can stand up to a surface and sit himself back down again, so I'm not sure why he doesn't sit himself back down.

Anyone else with similar experience?

Thanks

[Tweakster]

Hi there, it is partially developmental for them at this age.  But we need to look at the routine to see why he is getting harder to settle at night in the first place, I think the standing is more of a protest and it sounds like he's either UT or OT.  Could you post what his day looks like now.

[cameron09]

Here is todays:

7am wake up and bottle
8:30 - solids
10:45 bottle
11-1 Nap
1:30 solids
4:30-5:15 Nap
6 - solids
7:45 - bottle
8pm - Sleep

I've also posted in EASY section regarding this new nap layout.  In just the last week or so he started not wanting to take his nap at 10:15/10:30.  Since it's getting so close to his bottle time, I've been feeding him and putting him down between 10:30 and 11.  As a result, he's taking a really good AM nap and now a shorter PM nap. 

Some nights he goes down really easy, others he's bouncing up and down.

[LinziB]

My LO is almost 9m and doing the same thing. She is taking much longer to settle at night even with a bottle first. Sometimes up to an hour! And has several NW where I go in and she's up on her hands and knees or standing in the cot.

Hopefully you get some good advice so I'm going to follow this post too. Thx.

[cameron09]

Hi LinziB

Sounds like we have the same personality babies.

I had an EW last night as well as a NW.  Today his EASY is getting tweaked.

So far:
5:30 - EW (got back to sleep at 6am after many stands)
7am - wake up
10:30 - NAP

He's still sleeping.  I plan to try for a second shorter nap in the afternoon but not any later than 4pm.  I figure sleeping past 5pm is too late (need 3 hrs of A time before bed I'm sure).

But I'm hoping others will chip inhere with more advice.

I think some babes just want to keep practicing there new abilities.  He wants to stand all day and has tons of energy.  Sometimes I wonder if he is trying to use some of it still at night.

[Tweakster]

Hi there, have you tried cutting the PM nap?  I think you may need to drop it to 30 mins for more A time to bed.  Since his morning is pushing out and he's taking a solid long nap, you need to build in more A time.

[cameron09]

OKay, so his AM nap today was 10:30-12.  Since it was a half hour less, should I shoot for an hour PM nap?  And if it's 2 hr in AM, then 30 min?

One day when he took 2 hr 20 min in AM, he refused a PM nap.  We made it to bedtime, but with crankiness and he had a hard time settling again.  Not sure.  I've been kind of treating the PM nap like a catnap now and letting him dictate how long it is.  But I think if it's too late or too long, he's not ready for bed.

[Tweakster]

Hi there, I think he's telling you that he only needs ~2 hrs sleep, which is pretty normal for 9 mths I have found out.  And he's doing 11 hours at night. 

If it were me (and quite frankly it is right now, going through this exact thing) I would do:
If AM nap = 2 hrs then PM nap = 30 mins - you would likely need a shorter A to bed
If AM nap = 1.5 hrs then PM nap = 45 mins - slightly longer A to bed
and adjust from there.

I think his bedtime refusal looks like Finn's bedtime refusal which is sooo OT that he is on second, third, fourth, firth or whatever wind they can use to do silly long A times on a good AM nap.  So by the time bed rolls around, they are off the charts. 

Finn started refusing PM nap on a 1.5 hour AM nap...and I wanted to go long AM/short PM because our AM nap was the best and he was always EW which meant he was tired and ready to nap in the morning.  But it didn't work.   He just felt too rested to take his PM CN and refused it outright.  So we moved to short AM/long PM and let me tell you once we cut back to 30-40 mins AM nap, he's almost begging for the PM and does a nice one.  Final A time and bedtime has gotten a whole lot better around here. 

So if long AM/short PM works for you that's great as long as you can keep him taking the right length CN, getting his total sleep needs in a 24 hour period, and give him the right A time to bed without causing OT.

[LinziB]

Hi All4Finn I'm also following this post to see if anything here might help me. Just a quick question about your last post.  My LO sleeps roughly 1.5 to 2hrs in the morning (can sometimes sleep longer) and then usually 1 - 1.5hrs in the afternoon. So as I am currently pushing morning nap later to do 2-1 transision in the next few months as I think she can easily do 3hrs, I would want to cut the pm nap but if I cut it to say 30min how do I know how much A time is best after the 30min nap? - we are currently working on aprox. 3hrs morning and evening and 3/4hrs between 2 naps.

[Tweakster]

HI there Linzi, so it looks as though you want long AM/short PM?  This doesn't work for all LO's but you can try it. I would cut first to 45 mins.  Dropping too fast to 30 mins may not cause him any issues but doing it slowly is really the easiest way to tweak. 

When you cut you normally have a ~3-3.5 hr morning A, then a long nap, then a longer A, depending on what LO can handle - 4 hours is quite long if he's not 9 mths yet, then a shorter nap of 30-45 mins and then ~2 hr 30 - 2 hr 45 to bedtime, I would guess. 

What's your routine at the moment?

[LinziB]

Awake 7.00 (sometimes wakes 30min earlier then I shift everything forward according to waking time)
E 7:00 BF/Bottle
E 8:30 Breakfast
A 7:00 - 10:00 (3hrs)
S 10:00 - 11:30/12:00 (can sometimes sleep longer than 2hrs)

E 11:30 or on waking Bottle
E 12:30/13:00 Lunch depending on when Bottle
A 11:30 - 2:30/3:00 (aprox. 3hrs sometimes 3.5)
S 2:30/3:00 - 4:00/4:30

E 4:00 or on waking
E 5:30 Dinner
A 4:00 - 7:00 (3hrs)
E 7:00 Bottle
S 7:00 (has been taking 1hr for her to fall asleep the past 3 nights!)

[cameron09]

My DS used to have a bedtime of 7pm.  Then he started refusing at that time.  It's been pushed to 8pm now and it seems to work.  I have tried putting him down earlier a few times since the change to 8pm, but he has always refused it (too awake).  Do you think your DS just needs 11 hours now (ie 8pm-7am)?

My schedule looks very similar to your, but just a later pm nap by about 30 min and thus a later bedtime.

What I need to know is how to handle him when he keeps standing up in the night when he awakens.  I put him down and he immediately flip over onto all fours and pushed up.  We repeat this process what seems like a million times.  Finally, I have to walk around the house with him rocking him or feed him (not good).

However, I think he's having some bad teething problem right now.  Red cheeks on face and bottom.  Not a happy camper. 

I hope someone can answer how to handle the refusing to sleep and standing problem.

[lpperry]

My LO is also 9 months.

Wake up 7:30/8
First nap 11:30ish-usually 2 or 2 1/2 hours
second nap: 4:30 or 5:00--usually an hour (sometimes 45, sometimes 1.5)
Bedtime 8:00

With my LO, activity time after the second nap does not effect bedtime at all. Sometimes, if he does sleep for 1.5 hours, we just move bedtime back to 8:30 or 9. He usually will sleep in the next morning.

So, a long morning nap and shorter afternoon works for us. It's worth a try!

As for the standing in the crib. My LO started that around 7 months and he really couldn't get himself down.  He'd just tumble over, hitting his head. It was a pain!  I always put him in a sleep sack, but he could still sit up, crawl, and stand up in the sleep sack!  For a few days, I'd let him stand for about 10 minutes until he started fussing. Then I'd go in and lay him down. He'd cry sometimes because I went back in and left, but then he usually went to sleep.  Now that he is 9 months, he still stands in his crib frequently, but I just leave him. Usually he goes right to sleep in 5 minutes, but sometimes I'll here him for 15 minutes. I know he can get down, so I just let him stand until he decides to lay down and go to sleep.  If he was crying, I'd give him a few minutes to do that too. 

[LinziB]

Cameron09 - As you know I have been dealing with the same problem. I started tackling sleep issues trying to get my LO to go to sleep by herself and this is when she started getting up onto all fours and then standing.

How I have tackled it in last 3 days is by staying with her while she falls asleep un assisted and lying her down each time she tries to get up ... also I sometimes hold a firm hand on her bum holding her on her side as thats how she goes to sleep which prevents her from turning onto all fours and getting up. Sometimes restricting her movement makes her cross but only for a couple of seconds and she gives in ... if she does start to cry I PU/PD and then turn her on her side and start again.

This has been taking up to an hour at night and 30min for naps. After 3 days we are down to 10 - 15min for her to fall asleep this way during naps and 30min last night.
And last night she STTN! For the first time in months. (Probably the 10th or so time ever)

Hope this helps.

[cameron09]

Wow LinziB that's terrific. 

I had just done the same thing the last 2 nights to go to bed.  Last night I held him down by just putting a light hand on his back.  He finally quietened down after 10 minutes and went to sleep.  When he woke up 1 hr later, I did the same thing and he went to sleep in minutes.

However, his 2 NW's, I have been less successful.  I caved in after 10 minutes and fed him both times.  He then went to sleep.  So, my goal this week is to be more consistent and do what you are doing - keep putting him back down.  It's just hard during the night as I think he has gotten used to a bit of a feed.

A STTN would be such a treat to help me regain my energy!  Like your LO, he has only STTN a period of a few weeks before. 

Keep up the good work and I'll try to keep up with this method.