Author Topic: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!  (Read 5174 times)

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Offline greenteamomma

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2010, 18:57:30 pm »
It was the annual "send employees home from work early to encourage baby making" day! PMSL, I love it.


I only just read that Mashi...that IS funnyyyyy!

Have you tried feeding him at 5.15 to see if he will go back to sleep at that point?  If he is waking from hunger then he might go back to sleep - you lose nothing by trying - and then you can get him caught up and back on track.

I might sound mean but no I have not tried nor do I plan to.  The signing has been more this past week and coincides with him taking in more cows milk.  I really think they are linked.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 19:00:12 pm by greenteamomma »


Offline greenteamomma

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2010, 20:14:16 pm »
Well, I got two hours out of him this afternoon.  I APOP him to bed by 3.15.  This is his usual a time after 30 mins but I wanted him not to roll around.  Now, he woke after 1.5 and I went in and said lay down and go to sleep and he did!  Well I used a sweet voice, just so you know!  I will put him to bed after 3.5 if I can tonight to make sure he is caught up and hopefully sleep will bring on sleep!  This is the first 2+ hr nap in a long long time after 30 mins! The long first A and the second just on the short end.  Oh please cross your fingers for a long 11 hr night!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 20:32:50 pm by greenteamomma »


Offline Mashi

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2010, 20:32:15 pm »
Well, first I think it is good that you already know that the long morning nap isn't an option, only because it is one thing ruled out and that's a good start.

I think having a plan, a good one, that you are comfortable with is the next good thing.  If it doesn't work, make your changes slowly, one at a time, so that you can see what is working or not working!

Just some other random thoughts -

DS started walking at 11.5 months.  Until he was about 14ish months, I still needed to tire him out for him to take an afternoon nap.  I woke him from his morning nap, we had a snack and then went straight out the door.  We walked to the park (made him walk!) , ran around for a good 45 minutes, and then walked home for lunch. Had lunch and then I had to play very physical indoor games (hide and seek, chase, tag, and so on) for another good 30 minutes before he was ready for his nap.  I was nice and thin back then  :P   Could be that some extra tiring activities will still help with the naps...hard I know in Ontario winter, but even a good hour in the snow might get you better naps in!

Teeth -- the teething process totally exhausts some LOs, mine one of them.  A times are drastically decreased, like HUGE. Starts not with the cutting but with the shifting underneath the gums, before the swelling even starts.  Something to keep in the back of your mind....maybe he's the same and needing MORE sleep than you are expecting. The bottom canines a few weeks ago got my DS back up to 14h nights and 2-3h naps  ;D  Not all are like this, not saying yours is but just something to keep in mind, perhaps.   I also would not discount these NWs as not beeing teeth related, it is definitely common, and if pain meds are not working, you might find some teething gel does, as it works faster.

I do agree with Clare (clazzat) about feeding him if he is hungry, but at the same time, I know that I would not have it I were in that situation. It could be a case of trying to increase his food intake in the day - if he is eating adequately there is no need for an LO of his age to need a night/early morning feed, unless he's not getting enough in the day. The MPI could definitely be an issue -- what formula is he on? There is no harm at all in cutting his dairy out for a while - his formula will still have enough fat, calcium and so on if he is getting the right one for his age.  If you do cut the dairy, you may not see results instantly, it can take a fair while so give it time.

If he is restless from 3-4, you can try W2S at 230ish.

When SA and teeth caused us NWs (still do, occasionally, and you are at an age for it!) I hauled out the spare duvets and slept on DS's floor from when he woke until proper morning time.  Held his hand through the cot bars and so on.  Sometimes pulled his mattress out onto the floor and pushed it against the wall and cuddled him back to sleep.  The difference in that, and taking him to bed is that by going to him and not bringing him to me it doesn't send the same message to him. Not a solution that everyone is happy with, but again, throwing it out there.

That's all I can think of at the moment...hope something in there is useful  :-*

Offline Mashi

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2010, 20:32:33 pm »
Fantastic news with the nap today!!

Offline greenteamomma

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2010, 14:21:29 pm »
Well, we had a great night Friday night and he woke at 5:30.  He were optimistic.  Saturday we tried again for a 30 min and 2 hr naps.  He only slept 1.5 in the pm so we tried to have him in bed by 6:50.  We thought no big deal, just go to bed early and get another good night and tomorrow we'll reassess.  WELL, he was restless in my DH arms and would not go down "early".  We put him down around 7:00 finally but he went to sleep around 7:20ish so 4 hrs 15 of A time.  He woke from 9:00 pm on for an uncountable number of times.  Sometimes it was after 30 mins, sometimes 15 sometimes 1 hr.  I gave him pain meds, camilia and moved to his room.  He was up restless from 3 ish to 4:30 and then slept until....5:15.  I APOP but he would have nothing of it.  So we got up at 6:15.  Now he's down at 9:05 for as long as he wants to catch up.
45 mins has caused us some bad pm naps but he needs to catch up on his sleep right?  Then in the pm I will try for 3.75 this time of A time instead of 3.5.  I am not jumping the gun to quick by changing again but just thinking that MAYBE a shorter A time in the am like 3.75 and a longer last A time of 4.25 or 4.5 might work? THOUGHTS?   

PS:  Passed the civic servent exam.....considered bilingual by the gov and now exempt from any further language testing woot woot!


Offline greenteamomma

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2010, 14:46:51 pm »
Can you say FAIL?  He only slept 20 mins and no amount of AP would help.  We are going to try the long long pm nap whether we want to or not!


Offline Mashi

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2010, 17:50:25 pm »
Well, we had a great night Friday night and he woke at 5:30.  He were optimistic.  Saturday we tried again for a 30 min and 2 hr naps.  He only slept 1.5 in the pm so we tried to have him in bed by 6:50.  We thought no big deal, just go to bed early and get another good night and tomorrow we'll reassess.  WELL, he was restless in my DH arms and would not go down "early". 

My first thought (without knowing what time he woke up) is that 650 wasn't early enough.  If he slept 130-300, then probably into bed a bit after 6 and asleep at 630?  Not that it helps now but a thought for next time.

Quote (selected)
We put him down around 7:00 finally but he went to sleep around 7:20ish so 4 hrs 15 of A time.  He woke from 9:00 pm on for an uncountable number of times.  Sometimes it was after 30 mins, sometimes 15 sometimes 1 hr.  I gave him pain meds, camilia and moved to his room.  He was up restless from 3 ish to 4:30 and then slept until....5:15.  I APOP but he would have nothing of it.  So we got up at 6:15.  Now he's down at 9:05 for as long as he wants to catch up.

So definitely OT here.  I think that based on him only sleeping 20 minutes for this morning nap, even 905 was too late. Such a restless night and early waking, he probably needed to go down closer to 800 or 830ish, just as a one-off thing for today if he's hardly slept at all.  Again, hindsight and all, and hopefully you won't be in this position
again but if you are, then I would try for an earlier nap.


Quote (selected)
45 mins has caused us some bad pm naps but he needs to catch up on his sleep right?  Then in the pm I will try for 3.75 this time of A time instead of 3.5.  I am not jumping the gun to quick by changing again but just thinking that MAYBE a shorter A time in the am like 3.75 and a longer last A time of 4.25 or 4.5 might work? THOUGHTS?   

Yes, it's possible. My DS always liked a very short first A time and a longer one before bed. At this age I really think it is just about finding the "magic spot" for your own LO.

Quote (selected)
PS:  Passed the civic servent exam.....considered bilingual by the gov and now exempt from any further language testing woot woot!

That's awesome!!!!  Congratulations!!! 

Offline greenteamomma

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2010, 18:40:00 pm »
I know he's OT and I know he needs consistency but this is just out of control.  I want to find the perfect spot but it just doesn't seem like I ever will.  He is starting daycare in the mornings tomorrow.  The goal of the weekend was to find what we would tell her to do....but since Saturday backfired and today totally bombed....I just don't know where to begin.  Those early to beds are just reinforcing the 5 am wake up too since on a good day he only ever sleeps 11 hrs, well in the past anyway. 
I do agree with your suggestions for early beds etc but honestly Mashi, he just won't go if he UT and just won't go if he's OT at this point.  I can't do either. 
I also think teething is really bad right now but he's not needing more sleep or not sleeping long enough for his needs...


Offline greenteamomma

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2010, 19:22:38 pm »
Well he slept restlesly for 1 hr and 40  mins.  I tried wi/wo for while but he would not settle.  I took him out after 20+ mins.  Now my husband is attempting to AP him to sleep so he can go to bed at a descent hour.  If not, bed at 5:30?  Then a 4 am wake?


Offline Mashi

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2010, 19:25:05 pm »
What did the day look like today, in terms of times?

Offline greenteamomma

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2010, 21:11:04 pm »
Well with the time difference, I am guessing you are in bed !  this was our day
wake 5:15
nap 9:05 till 9:25 he woke
snacks and lunch
nap 12:00 till 1:40 then wi/wo calm but would not sleep then hysterical.  DH AP but didn't work.
Now, guessing we will try bed at 6:00.  If he still wakes at 5:00 its 11 hrs. 
We consulted the pharmacist and he said we can alternate motrin and tylenol through the night which we didn't know so will try this in combination with camilia.
Tomorrw, we will try for a 4hr 15 A time in the am I think and then 30 mins.  At least to push the day until things settle.  Maybe today was just an off day and we can get a day like Friday back.  His long sleep will be with me so I can AP early. 


Offline londonmama

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2010, 10:07:49 am »
Sorry you're still have trouble.  We seem to be in a pattern of either loads of NWs or STTN but awake at 5 am.  This 2:1 is a real nightmare!

Just re: nursery, my DS started 2 weeks ago.  I too was freaking out not knowing what to tell nursery re: routine.  As it turns out he does completely different things there - some days he has just 1 nap at 12:30, other days she says that she put him down for a short sleep in the morning, 1 day she let him sleep 1 hr in the AM (he hasn't had this long in the AM in months and months) and he still slept 1.5 hours in the PM!!  So I've had to relinquish control and just hope for the best.  On the positive side, when he is at nursery it means I don't have to stress about naps!  I am just trying to roll with it, and avoid OT as much as possible (not really working) and hope that he'll grow into handling the OT better and better.

Good luck!

Offline Mashi

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2010, 10:16:06 am »
Just checking in to see how last night went!

Offline greenteamomma

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2010, 13:03:21 pm »
In bed and asleep at 6:05 thanks to a little APOP from DH to make sure he wasn't restless going down etc.  He slept with a cry out at 9:00 for a second then nothing till 3:30 when he cried out , again at 4:15 then nothing till 5:20.  Not bad considering the time he went to bed last night, that is 11+ hrs. 
I am going to bite the bullet and get the caregiver to give him a 20 min nap at 9:30.  Then I will put him down after 2 hrs hope he sleeps 2 and early bed again.  I reread all the posts here and a few people had suggested that from the start.  ONLY doing this cause it gave us a longer night. 


Offline londonmama

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Re: consistent 9 hr nights-EW are out of control-please help us!
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2010, 13:36:04 pm »
We did the 20 min nap yesterday AM and it worked well, though I pushed the second A too hard and he was definitely OT going down for nap 2 (the wild hysterical laughing kind of OT!) but I got him down and he had a good sleep.

The problem is that our days are too long with 2 naps now, even just with 20 mins AM.  He went to sleep at 7:15 last night and was awake at 5:45.  Just can't seem to get it right during this transition!