My 78th post about EWs

[*Amy*]

well if it is any consolation......DS slept 1hour 15mins yesterday went to bed at 7pm and woke bright eyed and bushy tailed at 5.30am....I swear someone must poke him to wake him at that time every morning!!
I put him down for his nap 30 mins earlier today but it will probably just make tomorrow morning worse!

[anna*]

Does anyone have an opinion on early/normal/late bed tonight?

[anna*]

Thanks to anyone hopping over from the old thread. To summarise, for a week I tried cutting back his daytime nap but the mornings got if anything slightly worse, so the last two days I've gone back to letting him sleep. Having said that, on nursery days he has always done ~45-75 mins nap. He is actively teething a molar but medicated.

[anna*]

That's what I do Jane - I sneak into his room some time around 3ish (whenever I wake up to pee) and give infant Nurofen.

[squeakersmum]

OK - I would say fixed bedtime - only because worrying about what time to put him to bed after x amount of sleep or after x wake up time is just adding to your stress.  You also said that he doesn't do OT naps anymore so theoretically he should still go down ok.  So let's say bedtime is 7.30pm, if he does a 10 hour night that would take him to 5.30am. Obviously you want him to do longer than 10 hours.  Perhaps the fixed bedtime and naptime (at nursery) will allow his bodyclock to stablise and sleep longer (I have no idea how that logic works - but I'm keeping everything crossed for you!!).

Is there anything around you that's waking him early?  I'm sure that you've already investigated but if he's coming into a light sleep and then something is disturbing him further it may be waking him up.  Heating, hot water, train lines?  We found that the hot water coming on in the morning would wake Ben up if he'd had a bad night but luckily we have both boiler and immersion heater so turned off the hot water and just have the immersion on.  Also in my old house although the train lines weren't that close, I would be woken up by the mail train every morning between 5 and 5.30am.  Just a thought.

A thought about him complaining of being tired after his long nap yesterday - perhaps it's just that the teething is making him even more tired than usual?

[anna*]

I'm sure it's not a sound waking him because it happens even if I leave white noise running all night. It could be that teething is making him more tired, or that he is recovering from being OT from the week of short naps. Still can't figure out how he can do a 9hour night (he wasn't asleep til 8pm) without something being seriously awry. Still I suppose it is better than the night before which was a 5.30am wake AND a 2hr NW.

[babybarr]

I'm just hopping on to this thread to see how you're doing Anna.

I tend to do fixed bed and nap times (within 15mins or so) now simply because I get myself too stressed constantly looking at A times and DS tends to do better with set times.

[michaeljacknnugg]

Me too, it just adds to stress for me. I've started limiting naps (max 2hrs) and aiming for a 10hr night. If he goes to sleep late or has less of a nap, he can catch up overnight. Tends to work but not always!

[A pair of Charlies]

Huge hugs Anna

I need to read back over recent pages to catch up - and it's time to log off now, but will be back tomorrow, with luck.

One thing thought I should mention. I've been talking to other Mamas IRL with babes in our age group - seems that Charles' buddies are taking 1h naps and running a 13h day, some longer. I keep hearing that any longer than an hour and they won't settle at night or are up early. They aren't BWg mothers, so there's a caveat there that - to me - a few of them do seem OT.  

Charles' best mate is 2 next week. Dropped the nap a month ago. Sometimes might get 20 mins if he's struggling late avo, but generally no nap. 12h day, sometimes 11h, no EW... seems OT a bit but apparently if a nap is given, sleeps like a log but won't settle til late and always wakes super early.

Not suggesting no nap is the way to go.

Hugs. Those weeks of good sleep must have felt good, huh

Charlotte

[Tweakster]

Anna I don't have a toddler (yet) although Finn is close enough.  And he is a chronic EW from the get go...we are up every morning between 5-5:30 without fail.

I have read most of your posts etc and really feel for you.  I do think some of it comes down to Stan's wiring but perhaps you could compromise with him?  I know given his age it might seem like a crazy concept but I know they understand so much more than we give them credit for...

Now I know he's quite young and might not get the concept at first...but what if you did an agreement to get up with him every other day...and then slowly weaned him off of that?  You could get some sort of white board or something that says 'Mummy' with your photo and on the other side 'No mummy' with his own photo and hang it off his door or something. 

In the morning when he wakes and it is a 'No mummy' day, he must play by himself or go back to sleep until you come and get him...on the other days when he calls for you or DH you go and start your day and play in his room until your desired get up time.  So on the days it is 'No mummy' you do not go to him under any circumstances - 'Sorry Stan tomorrow is a Mummy day'. 

It's probably out there but just something to think about.  It does mean that you will have to commit to being up every other day at an early time, but that over time, Stan will get the idea that he needs to self-entertain if he's going to get up early.  It goes a bit further than the clock idea and makes it clear to him that Mummy is not always available when he wants her. 

[anna*]

It's worth a try Wendy. My concern is that he is so upset when he wakes up that he is basically unable to entertain himself - even when I do go to him (like on the occasions when he has woken up 'after' the sunshine clock), it takes a good 10-15 mins for him to calm down enough for me to be able to carry him downstairs, let alone calm himself down enough to play. Hm not sure. I know he understands 'mummy' and 'not mummy' but he has no concept of 'tomorrow'.

[Tweakster]

Well I think it would work to your advantage...that way he doesn't notice when there are two 'No mummy' days in a row lol :-)

Seriously though, I don't know it might confuse him perhaps...but it is also something he might 'get' if you kept at it.  His 'tomorrow' means that mummy plays with him in the morning.  Or DH for that matter, you could take turns.
How do kids get the concept of tomorrow?  I am not really sure.  You could also put a calendar on the fridge with all the mummy days and look forward to those days...at bedtime 'oh look Stan tomorrow is a mummy day and I will see you in the morning' or 'tomorrow is a Stanley play day, Mummy will see you when the bunny lights up'.  You can still use the clock and still continue tweaking what you need to tweak to get him to a later wake time - perhaps a routine might just sort him out...I don't know.

But I think at least your frustration level might go down a bit and you could enjoy some of that morning time with Stan :-)  I know it's sooo hard at 5 to enjoy anything, believe me I understand.  But it is pretty likely that he will just grow out of this...and until then you need to manage it without going crazy :-)

I guess I am just adjusting my own expectations and realizing that Finn is not going to magically start waking later no matter what I do.  Or even if there is something I can do, it's going to take time to get there.

[anna*]

I'm just wary of confusing him, kwim? Everything has been so much about trying to be consistent, I feel scared to stop being consistent and switching things up.

[Tweakster]

Yeah I totally understand.

Except that when consistency could be reinforcing the habit...sometimes it might help to think outside the box and shake things up a bit?  Dunno.  You know him best :-) 

Hugs...so sorry you are still dealing with this at 2!  I really would like to think that Finn will grow out of it...

On the opposite end of the spectrum...and not in line with BW...but has he ever come into your bed and to get some extra kip at that early hour?  Or does he just want to play?  I know it's not a habit some want to get into but I just wonder if 'the morning bed' might help in this case. 

I am sure you have tried everything!

[anna*]

Have TOTALLY tried bringing him into bed to sleep with us - he lies still for about 10 mins, then it's play time (and at all subsequent NWs we get screams to 'cuddle mummy daddy's bed').

Tonight I'm going to see if I can get Brad to agree that we spend £250 we don't have on a sleep consultant but ugh feel like such a failure we can't fix this after 16 months trying.