My 78th post about EWs

[~*Nicole*~]

Sherry-He MAY be OT. I don't have a 2 year old so I don't know anything! LOL

Anna-How many days does he go to nursery? I am wondering if you can let him sleep as long as he wants for his naps on days he is home and do a later bedtime and then let him have his short nursery day nap and an early bedtime...and stick with those times and maybe his body will learn to "catch up" on home days and "tolerate it" on nursery days.
Or on home days do the same 1 hr nap and an early bedtime and try to MATCH what happens on nursery days so it's the same all across the board and his body clock isn't having to go back and forth? Does that make sense?

[squeakersmum]

Anna - was he waking up happy in the 6 weeks he was sleeping later?

May be waaaayyy out left field but maybe his body clock is confused about which routine to regulate to (the nursery or the home).  Was there anything different about the time he was sleeping later?  i.e. more time (days) spent at home or at nursery than usual?  Do you put him down earlier for naps at home than they do at nursery? When did he start going to nursery? (sorry, I'm sure you've answered all these questions before)

IF he is trying to work out which routine he *should* be on - perhaps the answer is to stick with the nursery routine at home too.  So if he would have a nap at 1pm at nursery - give him the same at home.

My DS is 14 mths so much younger than Stan but we have a fixed bedtime because otherwise DH would not see him.  He wakes anywhere within about a 2 hour window in the am but still goes to bed at 8pm (he is in bed and settled - with lovey etc - by then).  At the moment his nap correlates with his get up time but I can see that soon I will be able to say that naptime starts at 12.30pm as he now will often play for a while in his cot without making any noise so it's getting harder to pinpoint wake up anyway.

So sorry your mornings are so early again - must be even worse knowing that he CAN sleep later.

*Hugs* - Steph XXX

[Sarah72]

Hi. I was going to say that on non nursery days do a Long nap and late bedtime. We also had a great couple of months of sleeping til 7 most mornings but now I think we are back into an OT cycle. So today he woke at 6am, went to sleep at 12.30 (was hoping to do an earlier nap but got stuck in town) and I woke him at 2.45! He was in a great mood all pm and then went to sleep without a whisper at 8pm. I am pretty lucky in that it is obvious when ds wakes whether he has had enough sleep or not. I will let you know how the night goes.

This probably has not helped at all but just wanted to try to help. EWs are the pits.

[anna*]

Anna - was he waking up happy in the 6 weeks he was sleeping later?

He never really wakes up happy. When he wakes up after his clock 'wakes', he calls me that 'sunshine is awake' and I go to him but then he will often immediately start crying, having a tantrum about anything. Wants to go downstairs, doesn't want to go downstairs, wants milk, doesn't want milk. Wants cuddles, no, not those cuddles. He is SO not a morning person.

Was there anything different about the time he was sleeping later?  i.e. more time (days) spent at home or at nursery than usual?  Do you put him down earlier for naps at home than they do at nursery? When did he start going to nursery? (sorry, I'm sure you've answered all these questions before)

There really wasn't anything different! He started sleeping later at the beginning of December when we were in our regular routine, it continued all over Christmas and New Year when we were all home, continued into the beginning of January when we went back to work and nursery. It all went wrong when Brad went away for 2 weeks mid January. He's been at nursery since he was 6 months old, and I put him down at 12-12.30, the same time as they do at nursery.

IF he is trying to work out which routine he *should* be on - perhaps the answer is to stick with the nursery routine at home too.  So if he would have a nap at 1pm at nursery - give him the same at home.

Doing what I am doing now (45 mins nap, 7pm bedtime) basically correlates with what is a 'normal' nursery day. Occasionally he will sleep longer at nursery but it is usually around 1hr or less.

[sherry lynn]

It's ok to give it a little more time.
Usually if something is going to work for Lyle it works instantly, but that wasn't the case with cutting the nap.
(although it did work instantly for Lucy and for Helen) but, it took awhile for us.
I'm trying to find you the post on face book where everybody talk about how much sleep their LO was getting. Helen asked it about 2 weeks ago, but I don't know if FB lets us go back that far.

I am concerned about you current routine though - as we got a 45 min nap. I tried the same bedtime you did, and I got an almost 12 hour night. So my gut says it's just not working for Stan. But.... I'm not an expert to say the least about EW. I seem to be in a freakishly great round of sleep right now. That, I can't really take credit for. I figure it will last until the baby comes, because that's they way it works right, it will all hit the fan at once.

Oh, one other thing that concerns me is how much you cut his naps by.
I know on nursery days he only takes an hour or so. So those days are cut by 15 min.
However, he is taking a 1.5 hour nap, four days a week. So those days were cut in half. That's a lot.
I'm just pointing it out. I know it was recommended to you by a few people  But, we don't normally suggest that people cut naps by 1/2.

One more thing that I want to point out,  I subtly mentioned it, but I'll make it more clear. Don't be afraid to try something that hasn't worked in the past, because they change so much, you never know if it will work this time.

Again. *hugs* and I hope it sorts its self out soon. I'm not offended at all. I know I would be at my wits end too. But, I hate giving conflicting advice, and that's what I'm doing. And I don't want to make you even more upset. I know it gets too hard and confusing when different people are telling you different things. *hugs*

[sherry lynn]

Wow, you had 4 posts while I was dealing with Lyle Now I have to catch up.

[anna*]

I can't go on with the short nap indefinitely, I will give it a couple more days, then I am back to square one.

[louis-mummy]

I'm sorry you're feeling so miserable, its totally cr*p isn't it 

I agree about OT.....most absolutely definitely. appreciate that contradicts your 45 min nap plan right now and i don't know how long it might take to decide if that's working

Louis, and lots of other bubs by the sounds of it, is always way more tired with teething.  And yes he could still seem OT even after a 2hr nap but i'd rather stick to set nap length and make bedtime earlier.  I know you've kind of discounted teething as a reason for the ew's since they've been going on for so long but its not going to be helping.

Just another idea, and i also apologise for giving yet another theory/plan, how about your 'plan' is to get him 12.5 hours (or whatever you think is optimum) of sleep in 24, so if he wakes at 5.30am and has to have 7hrs A time then so be it, let him have whatever nap you decide (i'd go for 1.5hrs personally) then bedtime is set accordingly.

e.g.

A 5.30
S 12.30-2
S 6.30

i hope my maths is right! if he wakes at 5.30 again then he's had 11hrs at night and 1.5 nap, if he wakes the next day at 6am then assume it will be 6am is wake up time and do same 1.5 hr nap and bedtime at 7

I could never figure out Louis' sleep on my own either, he could go from appearing way tired to bright as a button in minutes.  Actually i'm curious about your plan #3, might need to wait til this ot teething is over first but Louis did sleep in later once we pushed his bedtime back.  Never thought of that for you because we did it for other reasons.  Its how you get to that....? i'm tempted to say get some more sleep under his belt and then go for a 8-8.30 bedtime.

haven't read all your recent replies while i was typing this - yet!

((((HUGS))))

[~*Nicole*~]

Well...once you wear out trying the short nap...we'll be here while you pick a new plan to try out and stick with for a week.

[squeakersmum]

You must be so frustrated - it sounds like you are doing or have done everything I could/would think of.  I really feel for you - I know that doesn't help and am just sorry I have no useful advice.

Does he STTN or does he have any NW?

Only reason I ask is because when Ben wakes at 5.30 I have to treat it as a NW - seriously cannot cope with pre 6am and I so want you to be able to work Stans nights out so that you don't have to do that early.  

Steph XXX

[grace annes mommy]

more hugs anna. hope you got some rest.
i had another post but it didnt go thru  oh well, you have so many chiming in and supporting you. you'll get thru this. we're here with you.

[anna*]

I'm giving up on the short naps, it's been a full week. He was awake at 5.20 this morning and he's consistently getting less than 12 hours sleep in 24, which is just not enough for him (or me). I don't think he's OT enough that he's going to catch up with himself.

[*Amy*]

Hi

I have a chronic EW....since he was almost 14months old....no matter how long the nap or how early/late the bed time he would wake from between 5 - 5.30am!
I tried everything EVERYTHING....long naps/short naps/early bed/late bed....I tried all combinations....that was the time he wanted to wake up at!
So now I let him sleep as long as he likes during the day (normally 2.5hours to 3 hours) then I have him in bed around 7pm (sometimes earlier sometimes later depending on the days activities!)
So my day looks like this
Wake 5.30am
Lift from cot 6am
Nap 12pm (12.30pm on nursery days)
Wake 2.30pm/3pm
Sleep 7pm
I just had to accept the EW's as they were driving me crazy! I now nap during the day if i am tired from being up early in the morning!
Don't know if this will help any but just wanted to share
Amyx

[anna*]

Thanks Amy it's good to know I'm not alone. There's no leaving Stan in his room quietly while I doze - once he's awake, I'm awake. I work, so can't usually nap to catch up (I WISH I could nap to catch up!) Still it sounds like your little guy is getting a good 13 or more hours a day, so that's pretty good.

[grace annes mommy]

5:20 - yuck... so that was a full 15 mins. before the sunshine clock came on huh?

i just keep wanting to come up with some brilliant idea that will keep stan content in his room while we work thru all these ews.  just to lessen the blow for you a bit of having to get up soooo early. i'm not coming up with much, but i'll keep thinking and i know everyone else will keep brainstorming.


caitlin