Early wakings upsetting rest of day.... overtired baby right from the morning!

[helenloe]

Hi,

Please help.  My baby is 8 months old, and for along time now wakes early in the morning.  I have never been able to work out what time exactly, but I think she catnaps from around 5ish..maybe earlier sometimes.  She is quiet in her cot, but usually gets a bit more chatty from around 6.15 onwards.  I have usually tried to hold out her eating until 7, but this is getting increasing difficult, as I find she is refusing breakfast and is generally really grumpy and tired right from when I get her up.  She hasn't eaten her breakfast in a couple of weeks now. (in fact all mealtimes a nightmare as she always tired)

Her early wakings have prompted me to put her for a nap around 8am, but this has resulted in short catnaps throughout the day, as I guess she is not tired enough, despite looking and acting so.  He lunch time nap is often only 1 hour (sometimes less) and therefore she is still looking for a catnap later in afternoon.  I have tried moving forward her bedtime to around 6ish (was 7) so she isn't too OT but this hasn't helped her early wakings.  I have also tried keeping her up until 9am ish (3 hours after I think she might be waking properly) which does seem to result in a longer sleep (maybe 1 hour) but can't sort her eating times out and she looks for sleep at 12.30 again (and then sleeps for 1 hour).  Then her A time in afternoon too long.

I find she is a very fussy eater if tired and I am totally stuck in a nightmare routine, with a baby becoming more and more OT each morning.  How do I get her sleeping longer at night, and if she won't please help me adjust her routine to fit her early waking.

Any help greatly appreciated.  I miss my lively, happy baby!

[deb]

I remember Josie going thru a period like this. In desperation I went in to her, sit on the chair beside her bed, held her on me, and prayed for both of us to get at least another sleep cycle (45 minutes) so I could start the day with less of a headache. Usually once she had me there, she'd snuggle into me and sleep on me for that little while, and I'd doze off too and at least grab a few more minutes of sleep.

Well. After a few days of that she not only began sleeping later on her own (YAY!!) but had to be woken one morning after 9AM because we had an appointment I thought I'd scheduled late enough! (oops!) After that she woke early again, but not at 6AM any more at least!

Might be worth a try, anyway, plus it'd buy you a bit more rest if it works.

Meanwhile, can you post your EASY routine so we can have a look, see how things are set up on a "normal" day? Maybe we can find something to tweak.

[helenloe]

Thanks

a typical day was looking like this, but I have changed it recently so I will put both

awake:  anytime from 5ish (catnapping I think) Getting up at 7, although been awake for a while
E: 7
A: 7 - 8
S: 8 - 9
E: 11.30
A: 9-12
S: 12-1 (sometimes less)
E: 2
A: 1-4
S: 4.00-4.30 (CN)
E: 4.30
S: 6.30-7.00 (anypoint in between after bottle)

Have altered to this during the last week:

Awake: (same as before)
E: 7 (refusing breakfast though.  Acting and looking very tired like she needs more sleep)
A: 7 - 8.45 (had tried pushing to 9 but too late and results in OT.  Even this A time very grumpy)
S: 8.45-9.45.  Can't make this longer.  Have tried.
E: 11.00 ish (later than this means too tired to eat, although even this A time grumpy)
S: 12.30 - 2.30 (in an ideal world, but more often than not only manages 1 -1 1/2 hours max.  Sometime goes back to sleep but more often than not just thrashes about in cot trying to sleep but not managing it.)
A: 2.30 until bed at 7pm but too long.  Have tried moving bed to 6 rather than 7 but doesn't seem to change waking in morning.


Hope this helps.  Any suggestions?  I think she might be hungry in early morning but have tried feeding her and it doesn't change wakings.  I get a feeling she needs more sleep than she is getting, otherwise why would she be so tired?

[Jiinx]

I really wish I had answers for you! Have you tried feeding her when she wakes up right away?

At this age, the catnap is probably hindering her night sleep thus the night wakings. I would try to stretch that first A a little bit more and that way you can have a longer day and less A before bedtime.

Try feeding her that early in the morning...she seems very OT, so an early bedtime would probably make sense tonight and then see what happens tomorrow morning.

Again, not much help bc I'm going through the same thing. What I did last night: put her to bed at 6:15, she moaned, cried and fussed until 6:45 ..woke up at 4 (fed her quickly) and she went back to bed until 6:17.

[deb]

What have you tried doing to extend naps? With Josie the key was being there before she even stirred and then intervening before she could wake fully. In her case it was re-inserting a pacifier, for some babies it's a hand on their back or their tummy to help hold them snug and still thru that little stirring.

I can't decide about the CN; I agree that it's too long without it tho.

Maybe could you try extending her morning sleep by being right there before she wakes, like you might try for a nap, and extending AM sleep that way?

[Jiinx]

yup I've realized that my lo needs that too. I have to be there the second she stirs and start shush patting her. oh well it's either long naps or trying to teach her to extend her naps...for now, I'd rather her take long naps!

good suggestion, deb. as always.

[Emily’s mum]

Hi,

I know this post is really old but i’m having a similar problem with my 8 month old. She’s waking really early (04:15 today). She doesn’t cry but just lies awake looking like she’s trying to go back to sleep. I normally don’t feed her until 7 (the mornings have never been as early as this morning before). The last few weeks she’s seemed tired at different times to normal and i’m sure she must be massively overtired. She’s never been a great napper but now we’re mostly getting 3x 30 minute naps at around 09:30, 12:30 and 15:30/16:00 with bed at 7. She goes to bed well and although she does stir she manages to put herself back to sleep until the early morning. I struggle to know exactly when she wakes because she’s generally so quiet and i’m half asleep.

This morning I fed her at about 5am but she didn’t seem desperately hungry and didn’t go back to sleep until 06:00 when she slept for half an hour. I’ve then fed her at 7 and she’s now having some toast.

Any advice would be great as I feel like i’m getting it all wrong at the moment. She’s not super grumpy but spends a lot of the day looking tired/rubbing her eyes. She also sometimes crashes out for an hour for her final nap which probably isn’t ideal. She also seems a bit hyper at times.

A couple of months ago she was only getting about 2 hours sleep per day but seemed to be doing okay on it and was sleeping at least a bit later in the morning.

She’s taken to solids quite well and has never been that easy with milk feeds. She is pooing lots more on solids and I wonder whether that affects sleep too sometimes.

Please help!!

[creations]

Hi there and welcome to BW forums
It sounds like your LO can still do longer naps when she is tired enough (that late 1hr nap after having little sleep all day) so I wonder if you are putting her down a little early for some of her other naps.  Perhaps try an A time of 3hrs even if she has only had a short nap and at the same time start using a the W2S (wake to sleep) method to help her transition from one sleep cycle to the next.
Here's a link, have a look at naps option 1
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0
Some times LOs need some help to learn to sleep for longer than those short naps.
W2S can be used on every nap but if you decide to start on just one nap per day (as it can be quite tiring and frustrating) I suggest you choose the same nap every day because this method is about habit forming.

There's a chance that she needs longer than 3hrs A time at this age too, so let's see how it goes for a few days on 3 hrs and then reassess. What do you think?
Could you also record your exact EASY as the day goes on please? We find this really useful on the forums and can often offer more suitable advice based on the exact times and some short notes about LOs mood and what you tried to do to settle her.  If you can post it something like this:
WU 6.30
E
A 3hr
S 9.30 - 10.00 (used W2S 9.50 -10.40)
S 10.30 - 11.00
E
A 3hr
S 2.00 - 2.30
A 3hr
...and so on through the day to
BT (bed time)
and include
NF (night feed)
NW (waking not for a feed)
through to WU

Solids can effect sleep, yes, but if she is not overly gassy or showing signs of tummy pain or reflux from the food then eventually the poo will work it's way into a suitable time in the routine.