What do you do when they throw up during WIWO?

[jordiwes]

Hey all,
My daughter has been an independant sleeper since 5 months. She is a thumb sucker and has had a lot of colds, so she has had a history of AP for the cold and then re-sleep training. So she is very familiar with WIWO.

Recently she has started throwing up during WIWO. What do I do once she's thrown up? Do I clean her up and continue with WIWO? It breaks my heart. Today I had to AP her to sleep because it really upset me to see her get to that point.

Thanks a bunch.

[*Becky*]

I would not do wiwo if it is making her throw up. There are other solutions. Could you try GW?

[*Becky*]

Just thinking...what is her routine like? Do you think it needs tweaking or do you think this is not routine based? Post it if you would like someone to have a look. I know with DS he will get terribly upset if he is UT/OT and I put him down for a nap but if it is just about right he will go down or he will respond well to wiwo. When the routine is off he will go crazy and I find wiwo makes things worse x

[*Liz*]

I agree that I would not want to be using WI/WO if it is causing upset to the point of her throwing up. The advice of 'clean up and continue' is related to CIO methods.

How would you need to get her to sleep if would were not trying to re-train.

I know it has worked in the past but sometimes things just change and we have to change with them.

[jordiwes]

Oy! No WIWO???
When I AP, I rock her to sleep. GW doesn't work because she just gets so OS as long as I'm in the room. She won't sleep for an hour plus.
Should I do a modified WIWO where I'm calming her down a lot more before I leave the room? I'm worried that will totally prolong it.
She shouldn't need a routine tweek. She's just getting over a cold right now so has been rocked for a little bit.

[*Liz*]

But has she ever vomited during WI/WO before? Or is she still a bit sick?

How long since you did the last period of WI/WO?

I'm afraid I'm not going to be of much help here - I just feel that sleep training to the point of distress that leads to vomiting is outside of my comfort zone  but I don't know whether other Mum's feel differently.

[mmom]

This is why we can't do WI/WO.  When we got to a point that we got stuck in my LO's room, we used GW.  Now on the rare day if he is freaking out, I stand outside a cracked door and talk to him.  He generally will settle and go to sleep.  But WI/WO is a total disaster for us.

[*Becky*]

Agree with Liz completely. If it gets to that point - and we have been close I just give up and we either try again later or we go for a car drive or a walk in the buggy. x

[*Jo*]

I think if she is getting to the point of vomiting then its just not working. i know you dont want to APOP alot but if shes been sick then shes probably still recovering and if shes getting that worked up it cant be good for her body which is trying to heal itself. rest is more of what she needs so i think APOP is the way to go. you know she knows how to sleep independantly and so once she is fully recovered you can go back to sleep training and she will pick it back up again.

I know with Caleb that if he isnt responding to any sleep training methods that something else is going on, its not just refusing to nap. huge hugs because it is tough, pop your routine up and we may be able to spot something in there

[Mashi]

Gradual Withdrawl is another very calm option for sleep training and we have used it very effectively at many stages.

The theory behind it is that you slowly change one thing to make her sleep less dependent on you, but changing it only as much as she can handle and still be comfortable.  It is the only thing that DS and I are both comfortable with and I have used it at various ages with lots of success.  It does "prolong" things, which you are not happy about I realise, but if WIWO is upsetting her, then I see that prolonging things as well.

So right now if you are rocking her to sleep, using GW what you would do is start putting her down earlier.  So putting her down when she is almost asleep, and probably for the first while you will have to stay next to her and either keep a hand on her or rub her head, or something else she is comfortable with.  If she is upset that you have put her down and it makes her wake, continue to try to settle her in her bed.

Once she is happy being put down semi-awake, (say 3-5 days) then start putting her down MORE awake than she was. Again, you may have to stay with her for a while and comfort her in her cot.  In the early days of breaking rocking (which we go through every time DS is ill or teething, so I've been through this process a LOT!) I end up having to stay with DS until he is sound asleep.

You will continue putting her down more and more awake, as she is more and more comfortable with it, until you can put her in her cot without rocking her at all. I find that when we get to this point, DS will still need me in the room, and sometimes after a while of thrashing around trying to settle himself, he wants a bit of a cuddle and climbs up for it. I do give it to him, and usually after 30-40 seconds he climbs back out of my arms and into his cot. After a while, when he's able to put himself to sleep in his cot without rocking, I am able to put him in his cot but sit down at the foot of his bed near the door - if he needs me I can let him know I am there, but don't always have to go to him.  Once he gets used to that (say 3-5 days again) I am back to being able to put him in his cot, kiss good night and walk out.  If he gets upset after a few minutes of trying to get to sleep, I go in, over to his cot and get him comfy again, kiss, rub his head, and go out again. 

It may take a bit longer -- 3 or 4 weeks I think has been our longest at this age -- but we are both much more comfortable with it.  When I do get to the point where I can be doing WIWO I don't leave him to the point of tears, as soon as he is shouting for me with a bit of emotion in his voice (annoyed that he can't get to sleep or mad that I have left) I go in to him - so before the tears start.   But with the GW, it's very gentle, and if she has been ill, she may just need that extra comfort. 

[Peek-a-boo]

How many times has she thrown up during wi/wo?  Is she extremely distressed before throwing up?  (Or afterward?)  Is it possible that you started re-training before she was 100% well?

[jordiwes]

Hi all, Thanks for the responses.
I usually put off re-sleep training as long as possible to make sure she is 100% better. What I meant about not prolonging things is not making her upset for longer than she has to be. In the past, it only takes about 20-30 minutes of WIWO for one night to get her back on track.
She's only thrown up twice during WIWO. The first time was a couple of months ago and she had just had milk and probably not burped it fully yet. But it shook me. We tried again the next night with success.
The second time was on this past weekend for a nap.
She's not crazy upset (like she is after loooooong spells of AP), but she cries and then starts coughing (she hasn't had a cough).
As soon as I hear that coughing, I know it's a prelude to throwing up.
I'm going to try really calming her down in her crib before I walk out. I just hope it doesn't make her even more upset.

[*Liz*]

How did it go last night?

[Peek-a-boo]

Honestly, if she's not incredibly distressed either before or after the throwing up, I would just persist with walk in/walk out.    It sounds like she's basically an independent sleeper and this is just refresher training.  If she had never slept independently and was frantically,  hysterically crying, I'd advise taking a more gradual withdrawal kind of approach, but with what your describing, if it were my LO, I would feel comfortable just cleaning up and carrying on. 

I think this may be one of those times where we project onto our LO's our own feelings about it--as in . . . if I, the adult, were crying enough to throw up, I'd be in serious emotional trauma and distress and it would be cruel to carry on.  But, I think little kids throw up so much more easily than we do and are generally not upset by it as adults are.  Even when my kids have little tummy bugs, they'll occasionally vomit, look at it, look at me with a puzzled expression and then go right back to playing.  I have also heard of LO's who seem to be able to throw up intentionally if they figure out a positive cause and effect--which gets back to vomiting just not being the distressing thing for them that it is for us. 

I think you definitely need to base your decision on what seems right for you and for her in this situation. 

[jordiwes]

Thanks so much, all. WIWO went well last night (very quick) and I *hope* we are back on track. My mom has her for her naps right now, so we still may have some work to do at nap time this weekend.
Throwing up sucks for everyone, and I really hope she isn't coughing on purpose to try and throw up. She is a smart little minx.
But usually a great and independant sleeper. Love BW!