Author Topic: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?  (Read 13991 times)

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Offline elf

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #75 on: February 06, 2010, 12:55:04 pm »
DS is 6 months exactly.  He was on 1 ml twice daily from 8 - 12 weeks.  I still to this day don't think he had 'reflux' but he used to (and still does) feed so quickly that he made himself feel unsettled.  I put him to bed at 6.30pm after a 2.15 hour sleep.  I don't want to have him in bed too early so I hope I don't pay for it during the night!  There seems to be no easy way to get rid of this nap.  it feels as though there will either be early evening overtired stirrings or early wakings.  My Lo was doing beautifully also on the 3.5 hour EASY and sometimes I think once we got to 4 hour EASY he chose to make up for the feed in the night rather than take bigger day time feeds.  I am also Type A and write things down but hide my daily plan from DH who always says to me, "analysis to paralysis"!!!  

Offline elf

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #76 on: February 06, 2010, 12:58:49 pm »
Kate - I posted at the same time as you.  I have the baby bjorn and love it.  Used it for 11 months with DD1.  I purchased an Ergo when she outgrew that but took it back to the shop as I found it too complicated.  We then bought the Phil and Ted Backpack as we do lots of walking and she loved it.  Put DS in it the other day but he's still too small.  Great night for you - I too am trying to not feed.  I am hoping that DS will only want to eat once in the night tonight...

Offline Mjaz

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #77 on: February 06, 2010, 13:48:15 pm »
Ha ha - I asked DH what he thought about my log keeping and he rolled his eyes and said, "I'm used to you."  Ha ha.  I know, my LO was doing really well on the 3.5 EASY too...it wasn't till we moved to 4 that he's been having this wake with the roosters. 

So I put Elijah down at the same exact A time today of 2:30 and he woke at the 50 mm when yesterday he slept 1:20.  AHHHHH.  I don't get it! 

Eli typically has one-feeding nights after 7/8 hour stretch, so I haven't tried to wean him from it...I feel like he's genuinely hungry.  If it's more than one NW, it's surprising, so I guess I'm lucky with that.

Interesting to hear about the Ergo - I'd like to try it - since the bjorn kills me.  I will look at the Boba, too!
Melinda






Offline Mjaz

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #78 on: February 06, 2010, 13:51:46 pm »
OOOH I like the Boba!  Why did you decide on that one, may I ask?  Maybe I'll try that one before the Ergo! (looks sort of like the same idea - taking the weight off the shoulders and putting it onto the waist!)
Melinda






Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2010, 14:25:28 pm »
Yeah I think I may start a new thread on the NW board since I just can't see where to tweak.   ???

I know, doesn't the Boba look awesome? I can't wait to get it!  For me, it was that or the Beco.  I keep hearing that the Ergo fits taller, somewhat bigger people better and I'm short and small.  :)  The Beco has beautiful prints but DH wants to wear Austin more so I couldn't get too swayed by that!  The Boba uses organic cotton grown in Texas, is made in the USA, the pay attention to minimizing the footprint of the company, and it's clear they put a lot of thought into the ergonomics of the design for comfort and proper positioning for parent and baby.  I also read a lot of reviews.  And with a coupn code I found it was $50 cheaper than the Beco!  :D  I am sp excited about it!  And I just got a babywearing coat so I can finally wear him out and about again, which is awesome.   ;D
*Kate*



Offline Mjaz

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #80 on: February 06, 2010, 15:06:46 pm »
A babywearing coat?
Where did you end up getting your Boba?  I just told my DH I want one!  Ha ha.

Well, after shh/patting at the 50 mm, he slept another hour - so a total nap of 1:50.  Woo-hoo.  I'll take it!  And since he went to bed at 6 last night and got up at 5:30, I'm thinking 6 may be his new bedtime - though it's too early for US!

Kate, what's your EASY look like these days?  I'd be interested in seeing it!
Melinda






Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #81 on: February 06, 2010, 15:27:02 pm »
Yay!  Glad you got a good nap out of him in the end.

Yup, a babywearing coat! It's awesome.  Especially since I got it off of CL so I didn't pay full price! Check it out: http://www.suseskinder.com/apps/webstore/products/show/341743.  I tried it out yesterday doing errands with DS and it was great!  He was so warm and cozy in there.  So much warmer and easier than the stroller!

I got the Boba right off their website in the end. I usually hate paying retail for anything ( ::)) but it's pretty new so I couldn't find one used.  I used the coupon code mommy-daddy (I think but I can find out for sure if you want) and saved 10%.  It'll be here next week so I can give a full review of it then!  ;D

Our EASY is kinda day to day with the whole CN business.  Here are the past couple of days....

Thursday

5:40:A, E
8:00: E a bit
8:30: S
10:00: A
11:00: E
12:55: S
2:25: A
4:40: APOP'd CN (took about 15 min to get him down)
5:10: A (maybe should have been shorter?)
7:25: S
12:30: A, E (maybe shouldn't have fed here since I haven't been doing night feedings but since he missed the DF I just kind of did it automatically)
3:30: awake, settled him in 10min
4:30: awake, crying/babbling but not that upset so left him
5:00-ish: S (I think)

Friday

6: A, E
6:30: out of crib
7: solids (but he hardly eats them these days!)
8: E (one side to get him through the nap)
8:55: S
11:10: A (longest nap of his life!)
11:15: E
12:30: solids (again, kinda...)
2:05: S
3:15: A, E
6:00: E
6:15: S (I was shooting for 6 but oh well)
10:30: awake, E
2:30: awake, settled himself in a few minutes
3:30: awake, settled him in 5-10m
4:50: awake, hungry cry, E

Today...

6:50: A
9:45: S

And that's where we are!  I was wondering in the middle of the night if I'm becoming a prop.  I've stopped shh/patting since it bugs him and when he's upset I put my hand on his legs so he can't kick like a mad man and shhh until he calms/sleeps.  But I think I'll try to reduce that since maybe I'm becoming a prop?  Maybe that's part of these NW?  I also wonder sometimes if he's waking from hunger but I just can't believe that he is hungry at 2:30 after eating at 10:30!  I think I need to stick with no night feeds.  It was tough when I first dropped the 2:30 feed but then it was ok and he was sleeping 6h or so but then I tried to wean the swaddle (but I bailed on that since it was disastrous) and now we've regressed.  Fun!  And I'm not sure where to go from here with that.  :P

Melinda, do you WOHM PT or FT?  I'm going back in July and trying to figure out what to do about Austin since I saw a daycare last week and it made me really bummed.  Thinking I might just go for a nanny since he's so young maybe he won't really get the benefits of socialization, etc yet? 
*Kate*



Offline Mjaz

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2010, 17:42:13 pm »
I know, I couldn't find one used either.  I really like that it's organic - thanks for letting me know about it.  Good thing I didn't order the Ergo yet! 

Your EASY looks pretty good - so the NWs baffle me a bit (I'm sure you agree - ha ha)  The only thing I would TRY is feeding him at 2:30.  I just wonder if he's able to get back to sleep but then is hungry still, so keeps waking.  I don't do a DF at all - and he usually wakes, takes one large feed - 8 ounces - and then is good for the night.  I know how you feel about not introducing feeds at the point...but what if you tried NOT DFing and waiting to see when he wakes?  I could not handle the DF.  He would wake - not go back to sleep easily and then would still wake 4 hours later.  Do you think it's worth a try?  I have noticed that E's NW is getting later and later...and I'm hoping soon it will just go completely (he has STTN a few times)...I remember it used to be around 11pm, then it was 1am and now sometimes he makes it to 3/4am! 

I'm a teacher - so I leave every day for 3 hours door to door.  It's not bad at all.  We're lucky in that we have my MIL watch him one day, my husband's cousin one day and our "nanny" three days - she's really just a good friend's sister...so it's nice we know everyone!  My biggest challenge going back was the fact that it took some time to take to the EASY.  My MIL STILL ::eyeroll:: ignores it at times - like, "oh, he was hungry at 2.5 hours" or "oh, the mailman woke him up and I thought a 50 minute nap was enough."  She has him on Tuesdays and EVERY Tuesday I end up APOPing his afternoon nap b/c he's an OT monster.  So...if you do find a nanny...I would make SURE she's willing to do things the way you want them.  It took ours a few weeks to figure it out, but now she's on board and it makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE!  I, like you, was completely underwhelmed and sort of scared of, most day care places we looked at.  Plus, Elijah stays home all day and his sitters come to him...which is ideal imho.

I didn't see any sleep signs at the 2 hour mark, like the sitter did yesterday, so he ended up with a second A time of 2:22...after that first good nap, I wasn't sure what to try.  I feel like we're going back in the right direction, though...so that is a RELIEF.

TS.
Melinda






Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #83 on: February 06, 2010, 22:03:08 pm »
Oooh let me know if you get the Boba, too!  :D

I know these NWs are SO baffling!!  I honestly do think hunger is playing a part.  I was trying to see if I could get him to eat more during the day to reduce how much he needs at night but we don't seem to be there. 

So I used to have a feed between 10-11 that I often refer to as a DF but it's actually not.  He wakes for it and then falls asleep pretty much as soon as he starts eating.  I tried having a real DF back when I started BWing around 4mo but it totally interrupted his sleep cycle.  Then he was waking to feed almost religiously at 2:30 and for a while those were our only 2 NWs.  Then the morning feed started to creep earlier and earlier so we were having 2-3 feeds/night and that's when I decided the MOTNF had to go.  It took 3 days but then he wasn't waking for it anymore.  Then I tried, and failed, to wean the swaddle and we've been messed up again since. 

I had been just waiting and hoping that he would start to stretch out the night feeds on his own.  But I think I've learned that he gets very stuck in his regimen at night and isn't going to change it without some serious pushing.  I'm afraid if I give back the 2:30 feed we'll just be stuck there again. 

You do raise an interesting point, though.  I'm sure he still needs 1 night feed.  So maybe instead of feeding him when he wakes around 10:30, I need to help him push that later by maybe not feeding until 12 or 1.  Then maybe he could get to the morning.  I had contemplated that once but I really wanted that longer stretch after the DF so I dropped the 2:30 feed.  But maybe this just isn't working.  Hmmm.

Right now I work 2 mornings a week and a friend is our sitter so she's great about doing EASY and everything I need (ie adjusting A times by 5 minutes here and there!  Haha!).  So the thought of going to daycare (and this particular daycare I saw last week someone just described to me as 'orphanage-like' - ugh!) is breaking my heart.  I'm thinking more and more about the nanny thing and there is a remote possibility I might even be able to convince our current friend/sitter to work for us FT.  I think I would so prefer someone coming in so I can have all my Type A controls over sleep, food, toys, etc!  I do think daycare will be good for him later when he's old enough that he can have little friends, storytime, etc. 

DH and I both randomly had to work this afternoon so my friend watched DS.  He was great through winddown but screamed bloody murder when she tried to put him down - wth??  He never does that.  Must've just been the change.  Anyhow she got an hour out of him, so not bad at all but we can't fit in a CN since it was a later morning.  So 2.25h total sleep today!  :P  6pm bedtime but who knows what the night will bring.   ::)
*Kate*



Offline elf

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #84 on: February 07, 2010, 00:22:06 am »
I'm with you Kate - I posted on NW the other day but haven't got around to replying.  DS slept from 6.30pm - 6.30am but there was a feed at 10pm and 3.30pm.  A couple of stirrings too which I gave the dummy to.  I have been looking back on my notes from DD.  DD was an awesome night sleeper and day sleeper too but if she did a 12 hour night she often at this age did 2 naps of 1.5 hours long.  If she slept from say 7pm - 6.30am then the morning nap may have been 2 hours and the pm nap 1.5 hours.  Her EASY at this age basicially looked like this:

7am Wake
Nap 9.30 - 11pm
Nap 1.30 - 3pm
7pm Bed and STTN

I think because she STTH with no feeds at 4 months she coped so weel with no catnap - in fact I never remember it being an issue.  
I never let her sleep more than 2 hours during the day.  When reading the NW board most would suggest that capping naps at 1.5 hours.  I am going to do that today and then sneak in a 15 min catnap from 4.45pm - 5pm.  I am also going to bf him at 5pm, then give solids after that then the final feed before bed making it 5 milks before sleep.  I too feel I have become a prop in the night.  Part of me feels like doing drastic things such as removing the swaddle, leaving a few comforters in the cot and surround him with dummies (he can put it back in his mouth) and let him figure it out on his own - am not suggesting letting him CIO but am beginning to think that maybe I haven't really taught him how to sleep independently.  Maybe he would surprise me.  Although, like you, I took the swaddle away about 6 weeks ago to see what would happen and it wasn't good but having said that I didn't really give it a chance.  I was going to remove it once he STTN -  ha!!!

So this is my plan for today...

6.30 E
7.45 Solids
Nap 9 - 10.30am (planning to wake him at the 1.5 hour mark)
10.30am E
12pm Solids
Nap 2 1pm - 2.30pm
2.30pm E
4.45- 5pm Catnap

5pm Milk
5.30pm Solids
6.30pm Bottle

7pm Bed

I used to do something like this the only difference was the morning nap was 2 hours - I'm wondering if he only needs around 3 hours day sleep to get me better nights...  

Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #85 on: February 07, 2010, 02:53:28 am »
Elf - I forget what your nights are generally like nowadays?  How many NWs are you having?   I think your plan for today looks really good, let us know how it goes. 

I have so much trouble getting him down for the CN these days that I often can't get him down before it's too late.  But I haven't tried shooting for just 15 min, I usually go for 25-30.  Has that short of a CN worked for you?  Once I get Austin down for the CN he doesn't like to wake up!  Classic!

I very rarely get 2h naps so I can't speak to waking at the 1.5h mark.  We definitely sometimes have days on 3h or less daytime sleep, which is probably part of our problem some nights.  :P

We did 6:10 bedtime tonight and he only made it to 9:30 before his first waking.  ::)  DH is up there now but I don't know if I'll be able to push this feed to midnight tonight.  He's totally OT already from the day....ugh....
*Kate*



Offline elf

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #86 on: February 07, 2010, 03:43:25 am »
Hi Kate...  Yes the 15 min Nap has worked really well for us.  I actually let him sleep today from 9am- 11am (he woke on his own).  When he was sleeping I thought to myself, it is silly to cap his naps and give the catnap because I am actually trying to get rid of that nap and then once it's gone I will have to go back on getting good naps!  I am feeling a little like part of our problem in the feeding which has become a bit of snacking and that my milk supply only now makes enough for him to snack and then he is genuinely hungry at night.  It is with sadness that I am as of today using formula.  It is not a hasty decision.  I have another daughter and I have to think about both my children.  It has come to the point that to get DS to feed properly I have to sit in a dark room so he can concentrate and I think it is time to give myself a pat on the back for getting to 6 months.  I breastfed DD1 for 11 months but I can't see myself having the same goal.  If it doesn't solve the night wakings and feedlngs then so be it.  I really do believe that DS became a 'snacker' and I think I need to feel confident that he is getting full feeds.  I am planning for 2 sleeps today - will let you know how we go x

Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #87 on: February 07, 2010, 14:14:28 pm »
Hi Elf-

Good to know about the 15 min CN.  If I have to do one soon I'll try it.

I think your thought about not capping the naps just to have to offer a CN makes complete sense.  I also do everything I can to get through to the end of the day without it!  Let us know how you get on with 2 naps today.

I'm so sorry the BFing has been so difficult recently.  I understand how hard it can be to get them to focus to eat and I can't imagine having to do that with another LO needing attention, too.  Have you thought about continuing BFing once or pumping a small amount each day?  You might be able to continue to get a few oz and that's really all they need to get a lot of the benefits to the immune system, etc.  Just a thought since I know we all often think of BF as an all or nothing thing but it doesn't necessarily have to be.   :D  Whatever you choose I hope it helps with the snacking and the NWs!

We had a better night, I guess.  He woke at 9:30, then on and off until I fed him at 10:30.  I thought about trying to push back that feed but he was really screaming and I was just envisioning hours of PU/PD and I was so tired that I just couldn't do it!  :P  So then he went back down actually slept until 3:30, which is a better stretch than he had been doing.  Shh/pat for a few minutes and back down until 5 when I fed him again, then slept until 7. 

I'm also struggling with the feeding thing.  I feel like I'm back where I was a few weeks ago when I decided to drop his 2:30 feed.  I know he doesn't need 6 feeds a day plus solids (well, when he decided to eat them, anyway).  So basically the 2:30 feed I dropped is now back, it's just at 5.  But if I feed him then he'll most often go back down for an hour or 2, which this mama desperately needs!  So maybe it's not the end of the world to just keep up the 2 night feeds for now.  :P  I keep thinking I can get him to eat more during the day but I never can seem to do it.  He just gets distracted or decides he's done.  I guess I would feel better about the 5am feed, too, if there weren't 1 or 2 NWs between it and the 10:30 feed.  Oh, these LOs! :)
*Kate*



Offline Mjaz

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #88 on: February 07, 2010, 19:16:28 pm »
Hi guys,
Kate - are you solely BFing? That must be difficult - not knowing how much he's taking.  Elijah wasn't gaining enough wait and after months or seeing a lactation consultant and pumping 10 times a day, we are done BFing :(

I've noticed Elijah's night are actually better when he gets MORE sleep during the day - it looks like he needs about 4 hours.  Do you think maybe Austin's not getting enough day sleep?  I just wish I could help you figure out those NWs!  You must be exhausted!

I have to say, I am not looking forward to dropping that CN!  Sounds horrible...HA HA.

I thought I had figured out Elijah's naps - with a 2:30 A time - but today he woke from his first nap at an hour and was WIDE AWAKE.  So I got him up and tried a 2:15 A time for the next one to compensate for the short nap -he was awake at 1:10.  Wide awake, looking around, seemingly content.  I APOP'd him for an hour, as I am not dealing with a 5pm bedtime!!  I'm just so worried that these naps are OT...but he seems OK???  Don't know why that A time worked two days in a row and then didn't today.  He had a great 12 hour night, though - so do you think it's possible he needed more A time, not less?

SIIIIIGGGGHHHHH.

Hope you are having good napping days!

Melinda






Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: How early for bedtime when dropping catnap?
« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2010, 19:38:37 pm »
Sigh is right!  ;)

Bummer about E's naps today.  Yup, I think he needs more A time.   How long have you been at 2h30?  If it's been a little while I'd push by 5-10 for one of the A times and try that.  When A is wide awake after a short nap like that it always means he need more A time.  Can you get a CN in today and do a later bedtime?  Even if you have to APOP it?  Amen to the 12h night, though, I would loooooove that!

I am solely Bfing so I don't really know how much he's getting.  But if I miss a feed and pump I usually get about 6-8oz and that's what he'll take on his own in a bottle from the sitter, too, so I think it's a pretty good guess, maybe a little more since he gets more than the pump.  As I'm writing this I went and looked up avg needs in oz for his weight and it's 40-50oz a day so I feel like he should do ok on 5 feeds (including the DF). Especially since he's eating solids, too!  He's eaten pretty well both times we've tried today.  So I know he's getting plenty of calories.  This is what made me drop that night feed in the first place but it seems I have caved since I know that feeding at 5am will get me more sleep!

It's an interesting point about more daytime sleep.  I've wondered that.  And of course last night he only had 3 NW (isn't it sad I had to write 'only' in front of the number 3??) after only 2.5h of daytime sleep.  That was actually a better night than it had been.  I'm also not sure how to get him more daytime sleep, I guess unless I dropped A times drastically and brought back the CN regularly but I've worked so hard to get rid of it!  He really won't nap longer than 1h30 (1h20 this morning) unless he's having a growth spurt or catching up on serious OT.  So that leaves me around 3h daytime sleep without a CN.  But on a day like today where he'll probably be up around 3:15 or 3:30 there's just no room for a CN and I get stuck with a 6pm bedtime again.  Arggghhhh......
*Kate*