About to loose it...30 minute napper

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

No worries, there's a lot to sort out!!  My guy was awake at 4:08!!!  Took me an hour but I did get him back down until 6:45, though, so maybe we'll be back to a more normal routine - I hope!!

That first short nap is a tough one, for sure.  Let's try winding her down even if she's not showing tired signs so that you're laying her in the crib at 2h or 2h5m and see how she does with that for a few days.  Worth a try, again! 

APOP means accidental parenting on purpose.  It basically refers to when we rock, nurse, or otherwise assist LOs to sleep knowing it's not a good habit to be in but sometimes it has to be done to get them some rest!  The CN is usually dropped around 6mo although it is a long process for many (my house included!).  I'd imagine if she's already fighting it that you may drop it early, but she may be fighting it because she's OT from that short first nap, not because she doesn't need it.  So some routine tweaking might help that issue.  But either way if you have to APOP the CN it's not going to be around for all that much longer so it's ok.

I think on days she doesn't CN you really do have to do an early bedtime otherwise that last A is going to be too long and she'll be OT, as you said.  I would personally do the bottle last.  For my LO nursing is really calming and so he loves to do that last right before bed.  Not sure if the bottle is the same for your LO but either way milk is still the most important thing at this age so I'd make sure she gets a good milk feed as close to bed as possible.  If nothing else it'll help you know she's not actually hungry if she wakes early for the DF. 

She's still young so I would bet she still needs the DF.  Tracy didn't recommend dropping it for bottle fed babies until closer to 7 mo.  I would keep it up.  It's possible that it's a habitual feed but it's hard to know and at this age you have to err on the side of feeding, in my opinion.  Have you hit the 4mo GS (growth spurt) yet?  She'll definitely want it again then, anyhow, so another reason I'd say not to drop it. 

How does all that sound?

[katha]

Just to add to my earlier message today...

I put her down this morniing 10 mins earlier than usual - so we was asleep on the 2 hour mark on the dot. But woke at 45 mins (10.45) and tried for 20 mins to get her back (as i do most days) and she wasn't having any of it! So then, i took her out to the shops, as i always do, as i reckon if she's tired she'll drop back off in the buggy. She never does. I always get her back in time for next feed. She fed at 12.30 today (woke at 8am...bliss) and then went back down for pm nap at 13.45. So she had/always has a lot of activity time there (3 hrs).yet always sleeps longer in the afternoon.  So could that be an indicator that the morning activity time needs to be extended?

Hope this makes sense! X

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

That definitely makes sense!  The 2nd A time before a good nap is actually what was making me think about suggesting stretching the first A time, actually.  3h is long for 4months but not unheard of.  So you could either try the shorter first A for a couple more days (you have to do something new for at least 3 days before we can officially say it's not working  ) or you can just bail on that and tomorrow start trying to lengthen it instead.

What do you think?

[katha]

Thanks so much for all that. I didn't actually see your initial reply when i added that note about my thoughts this morning...

All sounds good - think may try extending that A time in the morning. Tried the shorter A before and no luck. I'll let you know. Would be sooo good to get that sorted, its been ages.

Re bottle before bed, we've always given it to her before bath as Tracy advocated the no use of boob/bottle as prop to fall asleep with - so we always follow it with bath (A). I BF her all other time of the day btw. Do you think that now she's older and not used to falling asleep on bottle/boob anyhow, that i could give it after bath with story? That would really make it as near to bed as possible.

Will defo err on the side of feeding - good advice. Not sure about the 4mo growth spurt. Had a few nights about 3 weeks ago when she woke about 5 times in the night, then stopped. She's 5 months next Friday, so i'm guessing we've passsed it. Do they have one every month?!

Will get back to you tomorrow with nap update.
Thanks so much again, so nice to chat these things through with another BW person!
Kate X

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Sounds like the longer A is definitely worth a shot.  Try it for a couple of days and keep me posted!

I hear you on not wanting to feed to sleep.  What I do is just nurse DS after his bath and massage, then we lay down and read one story before bed.  I find that's enough separation to keep him from falling asleep at the breast.  Or if he does fall asleep I gently wake him for the story and he goes into the crib awake.  Maybe that's worth a try for you, too.

This site has absolutely saved my sanity more than once! 

Keep me posted.

[katha]

Will do! Thanks. Gonna try the bottle after bath too.

(having said all that,  couldn't get her back to sleep after her 45 min wake up for her PM sleep today! I think i jinxed it! So she's had about 1.5 hours today...makes me really anxious. Just tried putting her down for cat nap early - not sounding good. She has got a cold at the moment, and think the breathing thing's disturbing her sleep more than usual. I'm soooo tired of all this....)

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Oh no!  I oftentimes come on here and write something or ask a question and then I think DS comes and reads it and does the exact opposite!!    Haha.

Let me know how things go.

[huby]

hello....i totallly and utterly know what you're going through and got some great advice from some very kind people on this site...and it worked.
MY little one started short napping at about 3.5 months too, and is now, bang on 6 months starting to take one or two lng naps a day (1.5 hours)
Part, I feel was developmental...she just got it, but i also worked hard at extending her naps. For me, it only ever worked when she actually woke and started to cry...and then i could shh pat her back to sleep.
Also i got blackout blinds and then eventually started to give her less and less help with the shhh patting to extend. Eventually...and it took a while i can tell you, she just got it.
I also had to extend her A time to more than i realised...and wait for her to rub her eyes and yawn a few times rather than put her down on the first yawn.
try and playing with those A times, but don't stress too much, a lot of it is developmental and they do get it anywhere from six months to about nine. x

[katha]

Thank you Huby! Always reassuring to know other people are going through it too!

Yes, similar to you i go in at 45 min wake up and shhh her back. Works in the afternoon but not the morning. As you've seen from prevous messages here, i try to go with it one minute then become desperate another! She started at 3.5 months too. Grrrr

Just out of interest, what have you been doing if she only naps 45 mins in the the morning - do you just get her up, do activity until feed time then have activity after until tired? I'm finding it hard to actually have a life around it all - as i get concerned she's not slept well in the am, so then think its best to stay home for the PM nap, rather than go out and do anything. Really finding it hard to get any kind of balance in the day time - keep waiting for it to change, but its not yet, so thinking i might just get on with stuff and she naps in the buggy when we're out. Otherwise i'm not doing much with my/our time!!!!

?

Many thanks
Kate X

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

I struggled with that issue for ages and just felt like I was chained to the house trying to make him sleep and driving myself insane!  In the end I figured out that for my DS if he woke up babbling and sounding happy I had no chance of extending.  So I would get him up, go out, do what we needed to do, and just try to be back in time for a shorter A to the next nap.  Sometimes that is hard with getting the feed in, but I usually figured it out. 

[katha]

Thanks KMK512 (can i ask your name?)

Morning nap no better today - tried extending A, but was hard as she woke at 5.45 this morning, then think she went back for 10/20 mins but can't be sure on exact wake time. Will try again tomoz. In 5 min increments do you think?

I did, however do bottle later last night and i actually DF her! Tonight we're gonna change the routine and do it after bath with story. I'll keep you posted. Thanks!

Kate X

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

I'm actually Kate, too! 

Sorry about the morning nap.  I hate when they're up and down in the morning and it's hard to sort out when they woke!  I'd try in 5min increments.

Yay about the DF!  So we are making some progress. 

[huby]

hey there Kate.
Basically, i had the exact same problem - and i wasn't able to extend the morning nap anymore, so I let her have a 45 min morning nap, which meant i was guarenteed to extend her afternoon nap as she was tired enough. Eventually I needed to shh pat less for this after she cried. And then when it took just minutes, I started to shhh pat until calm, but not back to sleep, and shortly after that (with the addition of blackout blinds) she got it and now does two 1.5 hour naps a day (it's only been a week so far)
I also extended her Activity time to 2.10 hrs int he morning and 2.25 hrs in the afternoon - until she was very very tired.
A lot, i understand is developmental and sometime between 6 months and 9ish they start taking longer naps on their own anyway, so don't worry too much
 

[katha]

Thanks Huby - re the activity after first 45 min nap: did you do 2.25 from wake up or from feed? Beatrice has 1 hour A, then feeds on time then has another 2 hours A...seem to be OK as i can get her back most of the time for her pm nap. Just wondered how you played it? Thanks x

Kate - Yay indeed for the DF! x

[huby]

hi
i did the time from the time she woke last....yesterday i put her down just five mins early for her afternoon nap and she woke up at 45 mins....it's amazing how much difference just a few mins can make!