Toddler Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition Continued

[Tao]

Hi There,

Thanks for suggesting the 20 minute a.m. nap. I think you are right in that she just needs more A time/less a.m. asleep. Yesterday DH woke her after 25 minutes (I think he missed the 20 minute mark) and she went down after 3 H and 45 minutes and slept for 1 hour and 15. Is this okay or do you think this was an OT nap?

Also, I was just wondering..since I'm doing 2 naps now her BT is much later, at 7 p.m. and sometimes even 7:30 but lately for the past month or so she has been a 5:30 a.m. waker, no mater what time I put her down. This means that she is only getting 10 hours on these nights plus 1.50 of day sleep. Is this enough?

Thanks!! Hope everyone has a good nap day =)

Christine

[gavinsmum1]

Is there anyone else that just wants to let out a primal scream at this 2-1 nonsense?!?!
I'm just sooooo fed up right now.  After 3 weeks of fabulous 1 nap days, long nights with an occasional NW, we are back in a mucky situation.  I made the mistake of trying to have a few 2 nap days to catch up on some OT as my lo naps got shorter and shorter and he was waking just a little earlier every day.  Well, it hasn't improved things.  We are at 15.5 months and it is not getting easier!!!  Today he woke at 6, put him down for a nap just before noon and he slept an hour.  OT for sure, but I couldn't have worked it out any differently with my eldest needing to be picked up from preschool.  When you're in a mess like this, is it better to just plunk a nap in around noon EVERY day and hope for the best, or should I start from scratch and shorten that A time to catch up on OT and then start moving the nap forward again?  Three weeks ago we were doing this:
wake between 7 and 7:30
nap 12:30 or 12:45- 2:00 or 2:15
bedtime 7:30ish

That is ideal!!! I know teething has sent us for a loop, but how do I fix this?  Jesse's getting up almost 2 hours earlier than my 3 year old, who, by the way, is actually getting more sleep than my 1 year old.  FRUSTRATING!

Sorry, for the vent. I'm sorry to see that I'm not the only one that's having a rough time with naps.  I really wish there was this magic formula that produces wonderful naps and night sleeps.  I thought it was going to be easier with the second baby, but I actually appreciate how smoothly things went with my first now that I'm going through it a second time and it's a royal nightmare.

[Tao]

Hi Gavinsmum,

I'm sorry to hear that thing are going so rough. I know what you mean about things being so tough and hard to predict! This is what I hear from everyone who is going through 2-1 transition! I'm thinking I just have to ride it out somehow. I'm wondering if it would help with the OT if you moved BT to much earlier if he has a short afternoon nap.

I know when I was trying 1 nap days, when she had a nap shorter than 1.5 hours or even 2hours, I would sometimes even go for 5:45 BT or 6 p.m. BT just to catch up on some of that OTness. I remember reading somewhere that to help get them caught up on sleep when OT creeps in, you put them down earlier to let them catch up. I used to be afraid that this would mean that DD would wake up earlier but it actually made her sleep in until the same time if not later! (which is weird I know.)

I know it's hard to transition back to two naps after 1 nap days because some LO's have a hard time with change. Their bodies become familiar with just one nap and then all of a sudden we are switching them back. Also, it could be that he just needs a few more 2 nap  days to get back in the groove of things. It took my DD 4 days to get back into 2 nap days especially if I had been doing 1 nap for quite some time.

I hope I am making sense and HTH!

Hang in there! You are not alone!!!

[marlowsmom]

Gavinsmum-
Sounds to me like he wasn't totally ready for the one nap.   If those one naps are getting shorter and shorter then he needs to catch up.    I would try a 20 min AM nap then aim for a long nap in the PM.    Maybe give him 3 or 3.5 hr A before his PM nap.     I was banging my head against the wall with Marlow when I tried to switch her to one nap.    After a few days of one naps that got shorter and NW I went back to two naps.  

I'd try giving the shortest possible A time in the morning before his AM nap, then 20 min nap, then 3 or 3.5 hr A, then PM nap.   I have to pick up my 4 yr old from preschool too.    On days that DD2 long nap falls in a bad spot then I pick up DD1 early from school.     Since the last hour of school is nap time (1 to 2pm) anyway then I get her (before 1pm) and bring her home so both of my kids nap at the same time.  

Even is my LO woke up at 730 she still gets a nap at 10 or 1030 and sleeps for 20 min.    I put her back down by 2 or 230 at the latest.   It all depends on when she woke from her AM nap.  

Christine- Stick with a solid bedtime.   I find that if I move Marlow's bedtime she wakes earlier.       Marlow wakes from her pM nap at 4pm but she still goes to bed at 730pm

[Tao]

Sharon,

Good point regarding the solid bedtime. I have been deviating between 7 p.m. BT and 7:30. I guess I should just stick to 7. When you say that Marlow goes to bed at 7:30 regardless, does that mean that you put her in bed at 7:30 or that you put her down earlier and she will settle and be asleep by 7:30?

I'm just trying to figure it out because usually Sophie takes 10-20 minutes to settle for bed...

Thanks!

[gavinsmum1]

Thanks Sharon and Christine!  Great words of encouragement, it was just what I needed to hear~ great thoughts and support from other BWs.  Christine, you had some great points there about the switching between the 2 and 1 nap days. I feel like we've already been so far into the switch that it just doesn't help doing the two naps, maybe the early bedtime is the way to go.  I'm just terrified of putting him to bed early as we had EW problems for a long time before we went to one nap.
Sharon, I know it appears that he isn't quite ready, but he did 3 weeks of GREAT 1.5 hours+ naps and great nights too.  It was a bout of teething that woke him early a few days and then because I slept later than he, I was putting him down too late thinking that he'd been up at his usual wake time.  That caused the OT and the mess we're in.  I think the two naps are actually creating a bit more havoc, but I can't be sure.  The other day, we tried to APOP a catnap in the bike trailer and he did not want to go to sleep after 30 minutes of peddling.  This has worked in the past for us, but not lately.  That was after 4:45 hours A time.  So we put him down after 6 hours A time and he napped 1 hour 35 min.  I think when he's not OT, he can handle a good 5.5-6 hours A time pre-nap, but I think the mistake I made that day was doing too long an A time after nap.  The two nap days we've had actually shorten up his night significantly and he doesn't get any more daytime sleep than on one nap days.  It only makes his day longer as he won't go down early enough to do it right. 
Anyway, this is tough! Much tougher than with #1.  That was a breeze!  Hope things go smoothly for all you ladies out there.  Thanks again for the input~ very much appreciated, great to have other perspectives.

[Tao]

Hi Moms,

I think I may need some help tweaking little Sophie's routine again. This is what worked before:

5:30/6 a.m. Wake
9:45-10:15 Nap
2:00-3:30 Nap
7:30 BT

For the past two days she has been fighting her a.m. nap. I think her A time may have jumped again since she is a year and a week old now. Yesterday:

6:05 Wake
9:35 Tried to put her down, didn't go down until 10:25, playing and whining so I just gave her 1 nap since it was so late already and she slept for 1.5 nicely and went down at 5:30 for BT until 6 a.m. this morning.

Today:
6:00 Wake
10:00 Tried to put her down, it is now 10:30 and she's still rolling around playing and standing and sitting.

Should I try 4.5 hours of A time? If so, I know I will need to decrease her a.m. nap to 20 minutes, but she usually needs 3.75 H of A time even for a 30 minute nap so I don't know how we'll get in a p.m. nap and a decent BT. What do you think?

Thanks!

[janecharlotte]

We need tweaking too- after the one sleep for the day (45min) that will take LO through to bedtime

Wake 7.15
sleep 12-12.45
Bed??

Yesterday was similar although she woke later (8am) but was in bed by 6pm. I think she is getting enough sleep during the 24hours for her age (14months) but is having long nights to make up for the no sleep during the day. The whole week she has been doing 13 hours at night. Sounds great I know but it makes for a long day. Up until recently she was only doing 4h A but I am pushing that out so today was 4.4h A. Should I push it more?

Tonight I am guessing we put her to bed at 6 again but she will have another 13hours and the cycle continues. Arrgh

[marlowsmom]

Christine
Can you flip the naps?    Long AM/ CN PM then bedtime at 730pm.    Marlow can't handle a Long AM / CN PM; she seems need to be able to handle me shortening her A from wake up to AM nap.     Can Sophie handle Long AM/ CN PM?

JaneCharlotte-
I wouldn't push.   I know that the idea is to push their A out but I'm going with letting my LO lead on when she can handle more A.   I've pushed my LO and ended up with shorter and shorter naps then EW and NW.   Sounds too me like your LO isn't ready for more A if she is having short naps.     How much A is she able to handle without you pushing?

[Tao]

Hi Sharon,

I don't think Sophie can handle long a.m., CN. Anytime we've had a long a.m., she refuses her p.m. nap unless we go 5 hours or so then maybe she'll go down. Hmmm...today it took her an hour again before she went down for a.m. nap. She woke at 6 a.m. and finally went down at 11! This, of course, made her OT so she only had a 40 minute nap.

Sigh...not quite sure what time to put her down in the a.m tomorrow morning. I'm almost tempted to wake her at 5:30 a.m. because on these days, she does go down at 9:30, but then I hate the idea of shortening her night sleep just to make the two nap day work.

[marlowsmom]

EEEK!   Then get her down at quickly as possible in the morning for a 20 min AM nap (maybe 15min).    Then try to get her down for PM nap and maybe wake her (depending on when she falls asleep) so she has a good amount of A time before bedtime.     I have to give Marlow at least 4 hours A before bedtime.

[aimeeL]

Christine - Yeah, looks like you're in that really rough spot of "in-between"!  Can you even AP a teeny CN in the am?  Get her in the car or in the stroller?  Will she go for that?  Even 10 min would probably get her through to a noon pm nap...

JaneCharlotte - Are you at 1 nap because your LO started refusing the am nap?  Just wondering - if it's worth still trying for 2 naps on occasion - just so she doesn't have those long days...

So - have been AWOL because we went away on a trip to check out a job opportunity.  Was very, very pleased with how L slept.. her naps weren't great - of the three days, the first was 1 hr 40 min, the 2nd day we did 2 naps, and the 3rd was 1 hr 15 min.  HOWEVER - to her credit, we had to wake her on the 1st and 3rd day because we had to catch our flights.  Anyways - the best news of all is that she still STTN, albeit short nights.  So am thinking that her body is getting used to one nap days, even if they aren't the "ideal" 2+ hrs, and she's able to cope a bit better with the OT..  Hooray for small glimmers of light at the end of the tunnel!  Also - the 2 days before we went away, I was getting longer naps, too! - 2 hr 20 min and 1.75 hrs, I think... so I think we're getting there...

[janecharlotte]

Thanks for your ears ladies. My LO is on one nap as her 2 nap days are even worse as she has 2x 30min naps . Late last week (Friday-Saturday) her naps were 1.5-2 hours but they have gotten shorter. Today she ended up having a really long afternoon awake but coped pretty well. Her A times seem to vary between 4.5-5.5 hours (less in the am) and she is waking crying from the 45min nap.

Any suggestions for tomorrow then? I guess I shouldn't let her sleep in til 8am (as nice as it is)

[marlowsmom]

Janecharlotte
I found this in a thread and found it to be useful info coming from someone that has been down the road..

Right guys, I have been thinking about this for a long while. We made a total balls up of the 2-1 transition and I do think it's something that you have to approach with caution. If I had known then what I know now then I think we could have avoided the four months of EW, NW and general OT hell and made a smooth ride of it - a little knowledge goes a long way!

So, here are Laura's top tips for handling the 2-1 transition!

1. Know your options! There a couple of brilliant posts in the FAQ that give you some suggestions for making the transition:
10-11 month old sleep gone wonky
From 2 naps to 1 - the when, the how and the bumps

2. Hold on to two naps for as long as you can. The closer they are to 18 months, the more likely they will be able to handle the longer A times without getting OT, and the shorter (hopefully!) the transition period should be. The thought of your LO having one 'deliciously long afternoon nap' (as Tracy puts it) is soooo appealing I know, but if you push it before they are ready it can all come crashing down.

3. Resist the temptation to go 'cold turkey' and make a jump from a morning and an afternoon nap to one nap at a totally different time. It might go well for the first few days but things can quickly start to go wrong and once OT sets in, it is very very difficult to recover from.

4. Know what you are aiming for and what you are trying to avoid! Your LO really needs at least 13 hours sleep per day, if you're way under this then your LO may already be OT. Check the 2-1 nap switch thread on the Naps board for plenty of examples of how it can all go wrong! It's a shame the original 180 page long threads are no longer accessible cos you could see just how badly we cocked it up  

5. Know the signs of OT - if naps start getting shorter, morning wake up times get earlier or your LO starts waking frequently at night, chances are they are getting OT. They might also start taking aaaages to fall asleep (although this could also be a sign that they are UT, so only really significant if one of the other things is happening too) or getting very distressed at bedtime/naptime or during NW (SA type behaviour).

6. The early bedtime is KING! Don't be afraid to put your LO to bed before 6pm if they need it. There is nothing weird about a 5:30pm bedtime if they have missed out on 1.5hrs day sleep, they've got to fit it in somewhere otherwise that OT will come and bite you on the backside!

7. Be flexible. Just because you are making the move to one nap a day, doesn't mean you can't offer two if you think your LO needs it e.g. if they wake early. Do everything you can to make sure they have the opportunity to catch up on lost sleep and avoid OT. You don't have to 'be on 1 nap' or 'be on 2 naps', you can do a mixture of the two for a while.

8. Be patient. Accept that the transition could last a couple of months. At the moment, there may not be enough hours in the day for your LO to fit in two naps with the A times they can handle BUT there are probably still too many hours in the day for them to cope with only having one nap. They kind of have to grow into it as they head towards 18 months.

9. Be creative with mealtimes - don't be afraid to do very early lunchtimes / dinners, or to split lunchtimes either side of the nap. It's only for a couple of months and normal patterns are possible again once

10. If it all goes to hell in a handcart... and chronic OT sets in, wake up times are all over the shop, nap lengths are all over the shop, then the best thing you can do is stop being flexible, fix on a one nap schedule that is closest to what your LO can handle e.g. early nap (around 11am) and very early bedtime (around 5pm), and stick to it for at least a week come hell or high water, regardless of wake up times, and hope beyond hope that things start to stabilise. If they do stabilise, then you can start to shift their day on by shifting nap and bedtime by 15 mins every 4 days or so until you reach a sensible wake up time. If they don't stabilise... then you have to go back to the drawing board and try and reinstitute a 2 nap schedule that you can stick to for another couple of months until they're a bit older and can handle the A times.

Phew! I knew I had a lot to say on the subject, but I didn't realise it was going to be quite THAT much!
Hope it helps  
Laura x

[nelliestar]

Been doing ok for a while but now we are getting EW's again...so we're back for some expert help.

DS is still on 2 naps and we have pushed his A times to 4 hrs now. He seems to be on the low end of A tolerance and was on 3hrs 45 for ages.Wake up has been getting progressively earlier the last couple of weeks but we have has teething. This doesn't seem to be too much of am issue this week but he does sometimes get hot cheeks at night.
 5.50am seems to be the fave time at the mo though he does often wake earlier but can be settled back or if he has red cheeks we will give calpol. We blacked out his room more as sunrise is about 5.50 here at the mo but that only gave us an extra 20 mins and just for that 1 day!

Naps - we do long am short pm since our last little bump and that has been working for us 1 hr 15 am and 45 mins pm - always grumpy and upset after being woken from pm nap which temps me to give him 1 hr but I don't!!
Night time sleep is now around 10 hrs 30 mins/10 hrs 45 mins so total sleep in 24 hrs is approx 12 and a half hours. Ds goes down to sleep at naps and BT with no problems and at bedtime is always asleep 5 mins after he is in cot - sometimes 1 minute!
As wake up is early (5.30 this morning) I feel I should be putting him down to sleep early. He usually goes between 7 and 7.15 but tonight will try to put him down at 6.45pm - a rush as I don't get home til 6pm but will try.

When he wakes in the morning is is happy/singing/laughing and very happy to see us when we go in. Does this suggest hes had enough sleep? And if so would it be a mistake to put him down even earlier? Would we get an even earlier waking?

I am genuinely anxious to reduce his shorter nap any more as he is soooo sad when we wake him from it now and in such a deep sleep. Today My Mum is doing 1 hr am and 1 hr pm to see how he does.

Could you advise me please? He naps really well and loves his daytime sleep.

We sometimes have brief NW which we thought were teething related - in fact he usually wakes at least once and he is sitting up or in an awkward position in the cot or has hot red cheeks. He used to sleep through well.

Thank you and I eagerly await your help!!

Nell xxxxxxx