Please help 4 week old napping problems

[jalaiaa]

Hi everyone. I’m relatively new to motherhood and the board. I posted something a couple days ago but didn’t get any replies. I think I posted on the wrong board. I’ve included my EASY routine from yesterday here. Anyhow if you can help I would greatly appreciate it as I am so frustrated. I have twin boys who are almost 4 weeks old. I mostly have problems with Eli and napping. Before I started BW both boys would eat, then I would prop them up in their boppies and they would sleep like champs. Periodically Eli would not fall asleep and often seemed content to sit and stare at the world for hours. He would sometimes get really fussy and difficult to calm without anything but nursing.

Twins makes things a little more difficult because they have different cues at different times. I have tried reading individual cues and reacting accordingly, but I have to say it is IMPOSSIBLE when I am home alone to do that and not have them on a similar routine. So as it is now sometimes one has to be woken up to eat or I try to hold one off a few minutes so that the other can get a better nap.

My biggest problem is Eli, who hates shus-pat and doesn’t really respond to it. His eyes get tired and I put him down and start shush-pat and he starts crying again. I let him cry for a few minutes while shush-patting him in bed, but finally break and pick him up again, repeating the process over and over until he finally falls asleep or I give up after an hour. A lot of times if he does fall asleep he wakes up after 30-40 minutes and I can’t get him back to sleep. I think he is overtired, but I don’t know how to fix that, necessarily. Most of his awake time is about an hour including feeding/diaper change (not including hours of shush-pat). James does really well with naps, etc. He does use a paci to fall asleep and I plan to try to stop that eventually. But it is really hard to shush-pat two crying babies at once, so until I get Eli sorted out I’m going to keep James’ paci.

I know they are young and I can’t expect a solid routine yet, but I am so tired and could use any help you can give me. I have a couple specific questions, but any general help would be wonderful. Can I replace Shushing with loud white noise? I shushed for over 4 hours yesterday and it is rather taxing. I’ll keep it up if necessary though. If Eli wakes up after I have shush-patted him for 45 minutes and then has only slept for 30 more min do I try to get him back to sleep? Feed him?

Sorry this is so long!
Thanks so much

Eli
Time   Length   EASY   Notes
745   35 min   E   
820   25 min    A   Diaper Change, dress
845   2 hours   S   Shush-pat 50 min
1045   45 min   E   
1130   15 min   A   Diaper Change, car seats
1145   2 hours   S   No Shush-pat asleep running errands in car seat
1345   30 min   E   
1415   30 min   A   Diaper Change, Tummy time
1445   1 hour   S   Shush-pat x 1 hour minimal sleep
1545   40 min   E   
1625   20 min   A   
1645   1 h 10 m   S   Shush-pat 45 mins, sleep 25 min
1755   30 min   A   Waiting a few minutes to wake James to eat
1825   30 min   E   
1855   15 min   A   
1910   25 min   E   Both babies rooting prior to S, fed again
1935   10 min   A   Diaper Change
1945   50m,1h20m   S   Shush-Pat for 50 mins cried/never slept placed in swing and slept (I know a prop and inconsistent, I was just so tired after almost 4 hours of Shush-Pat today and he had just eaten for 30 mins and again for 25 at wits end and didn’t know what to do)
2155   35 min   E   Diaper change half way through (he’d fallen asleep after 15 mins)
2240   3h 45 min   S   Shush-Pat 30 mins (longest he’s ever slept at a time- hooray) woken to eat bc James was up
225   25 min   E   
250   2h 10 min   S   No shush-pat needed
500   25 min   E   
525   2h 5 min   S   No shush-pat needed
730      E   

James

Time   Length   EASY   Notes
745   35 min   E   
820   25 min   A   Diaper Change, dress
845   2 hours   S   Shush-pat 50 min
1045   45 min   E   
1130   15 min   A   Diaper Change, car seats
1145   2 hours   S   Errands in car seats
1345   35 min   E   
1420   25 min   A   Diaper Change, Tummy time
1445   1 hour   S   Shush-pat 1 hour minimal sleep
1545   30 min   E   
1615   30 min   A   
1645   1 h 45 m   S   No Shush-Pat, fell asleep on own with Paci
1830   30 min   E   
1900   15 min   A   
1915   25 min   E   Both babies rooting prior to S, fed again
1935   10 min   A   Diaper Change
1945   2 hour   S   Shush-Pat for 25 mins then slept
2155   30 min   E   Diaper Change in the middle- sleeping
2225   4 hours   S   (longest he’s ever slept at a time- hooray!)
220   40 min   E   
300   2h 15 min   S   No Shush-pat
505   28 min   E   Woken up to eat bc Eli was up
535   2 hours   S   
735      E   

[Yazzie]

Hey there sweetie & welcome..

Just saw your post & will be back to have a look once I put ds to sleep..

[clazzat]

Firstly, some babies don't like sh/pat - they find it too stimulating.  With dd2 we did much better when I put my hand firmly on her tummy and shh'ed very quietly - almost too quiet to hear.

Secondly, you would probably do well to do the personality quiz for both of them:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52283.0
You might find that you have to take a slightly different approach for each of them if they are different baby types.

Thirdly, there is nothing wrong with using the paci - I used it very successfully with dd2, and it was a total lifesaver.  Even if it becomes a prop - which it didn't with dd2 at all, she found her thumb and didn't want the paci any more - there are ways to get passed that.

Fourthly, they are both still so little - don't beat yourself up too much if things aren't perfect.  It is okay not to have a perfect routine, and to do what you need to do some of the time to get some rest for you and them.

[jalaiaa]

Thanks, excited for advice. Can I add one question? After sleeping for a while I sometimes hear one whimpering but not crying. Do I go back in and shush-pat or hope he goes back to sleep on his home and wait for him to start crying.

[clazzat]

Wait until it is a cry that you are sure means that he needs you - babies often stir in their sleep and whimper or cry out, but then settle themselves.  If you rush in too soon then you can interfere with the resettling and then gradually they get to the point where they can't transition from one sleep cycle to another and they wake up every 45 mins.

Do you know about the difference between mantra crying and proper crying?

[Yazzie]

Wow twins...!!...u're a champ even trying to have a routine going...way to go mummy, you're on the right track already.....but just as pp said, they're still very little & it will take time to get into the groove of things.....& it's perfectly okay to use a pacifier, especially @ this age & you could consider removing it later @ ard 3~4 months before it becomes a prop, but to be honest, ds still uses his & although it is a prop for us, it helps alot now when we're out & he decides to totally express himself with loud shrieks...!!!...& about resorting to something like the swing, I think it's okay every once in a while, as you DO need a break, especially with twins..!...that's what's called APOP (Accidental Parenting On Purpose) , just take care that it doesn't become what the NEED to fall asleep, that's when it becomes a prop.

I'll put down a few links that I think would be useful for you to check out, in case you hadn't already, so have a look @ them & come back with any questions that you might have:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=1993.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64275.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85500.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64160.0

One last thing, I never really shushed with ds, only patted, so you could try either way & see what works for your lo:)....& after you take the quiz, tell us the results, so that we can see how to handle them, I'm already guessing Eli is spirited..!

[jalaiaa]

From what I understand, mantra is a more monotone sort of cry that babies can use to soothe themselves. You're not supposed to respond to it. Is that right? (My book is ordered from amazon and on the way so my info has all come from reading these posts) I guess that is kind of what he is doing.

[Yazzie]

Yeah..that's it....& you don't even have the books yet..!!!...you R doing a great job.....what abt the temperament quiz, did u take it?

[clazzat]

That's right, but the main thing about a mantra cry is that it doesn't escalate - dd2's mantra cry sounds like someone is cutting off her legs, but it doesn't get any louder or more urgent.  If it's a quiet cry that is getting louder and more desperate, that is not mantra, but a loud cry that doesn't change doesn't necessarily need a response - does that make sense?

Everything will be much clearer once you have the book, but we'll still be here to help - unfortunately it doesn't work as a magic wand!

[jalaiaa]

Oh, if I had a magic wand....

I know it's not going to change overnight. I just get frustrated when I don't know what to do, especially when I have a baby crying in my ear. I wish I had someone following me around so I could say, now what?

James is 100% typical baby. For Eli I had a mix of typical, spirited and touchy with only a few more touchy than the others.  (but I couldn't answer a lot of the questions because they're just not old enough e.g. they aren't really smiling yet etc.)

[jalaiaa]

Wow twins...!!...u're a champ even trying to have a routine going...

The days I didn't have some sort of routine were really hard. I'd feed one and then the next would want to eat. Then a few minutes later the first one would want to eat again.  I didn't sleep at all those days.

[clazzat]

The trick with touchies is to get the timing exactly right - dd2 is a mix of angel, textbook, spirited and touchy (exactly equal on all of them!), but I have worked out that the touchy part is all to do with sleep.  She has no sleep cues (and never has had) so by the time I thought she was tired it was way too late and I was left with a screaming OT baby.  I found that set nap times were really helpful, as they took a lot of the guesswork out of it.  I've also found that I have fewer problems when she is UT than when she is OT, so putting her down earlier rather than later has tended to be better for us.

I think the place to start is to notice exactly how long his A time is when you think he is tired - ie you are trying to put him down and he is resisting because he is OT - and then subtract 10-15 mins from it as a goal for a time to put him down.  Does that make any sense?

[jalaiaa]

That makes sense. After naps I was doing 10-15 minutes of true awake time, talking to him, lying him on his belly etc. then diaper change. I've reduced this to basically just a feed, diaper change, wind down, sleep. So far it hasn't changed much, but we'll see.

[Yazzie]

Is your little guy swaddled?..during this first stage swaddling helped us alot with the startle reflex, which always woke up ds.....here's a link for a swaddle that the ladies on the forum recommend:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=1439.0

this is a good link about what a wind down is & how to do it, maybe it'll help & give you ideas as well:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64277.0

These are also sample routines for this age:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164027.0

Does your lo get any gases?...my little guy had lots of gas & air trapped in his tummy till about 3 months & that used to disrupt his sleep alot, if that's the case you could try tilting his mattress a little so that his head is higher than his feet to help the gas out & it usually helped to use gripe water to get nice good burps out of him.

[clazzat]

One other thing that I think is quite common with touchies is that a long wind down has the opposite effect - I used to sit with dd2 swaddled on my lap, sing a song or two, really try to calm her down, but it would take much longer for her to settle than when I just swaddled her and put her in her cot - she would get really worked up and try to bust out of the swaddle, and wriggle and cry, whereas just going into her cot she would go off within a few minutes with the paci.