first success with sh/pat..need more help!

[aselby]

i think i just had my first success with sh/pat....my lo is a chronic 30-40 min napper...today, i went in and sh/pat for 1 hr and 10 mins...he was crying hysterically off and on and would settle, then wake and cry and resettle...this went on for about an hour...anyway , through backache i kept going...and he's asleep! so, my question is : how long do you do it for? i kept it up until i felt his breathing slow down which i think means he came out of rem and into deeper sleep? and he is swaddles for naps...how do i effectively lower him onto his back from his side w/out waking him?

i must say, afterr TONS of teary days on both our parts, i cant believe that this actually worked! does anyone know how long it will take for him to learn to transition into the next sleep cycle w/out the sh/pat? i will be very diligent with it now since i have seen results!

also, how long do you carry on with sh/pat...i mean, if he doesnt settle after waking early from a nap...when do you say when?

[Adaias mom]

Normally for naps its 45mins. If no joy by then take a break, feed if due and then try again. If he doesn't sleep after the second try go for a walk or drive in the car and get him to sleep by other means, whatever is necessary as he will be mega OT. Well done you for persevering. This is a long process, and there is no right or wrong answer to how long it will take before he starts to transition on his own.  How do you start the sshhh pat. Do you hold him, shhing and patting whilst he is upright on your shoulder or against your chest, then transfer him into the cot when you see the 7 mile stare, see him start to drift off or feel him totally relax, or do you put him straight in his cot and go from there. I personally started with holding my dd until she was nigh on asleep, then transferred her to her cot, and just continued to shhh until i new she was fast asleep. I did this for a few days then put her down a little earlier so was a little less sleepy when put down. This continues for a few weeks until i could finally put her down straight into her cot after a nice relaxing winddown and she would just go off with a bit of mantre cry on her own and i was needed to be in there. You have to judge it for yourself with your bub. If he continues to scream as you shhh pat him, try not doing anything, as it may be stimulating him. You can aalso adapt the shh pat to shhh rub, or just pat, or just hold, or just shhh. Whatever works for you. HTH xxx

[aselby]

thanks for your response!

well, he is great getting down for sleep...he goes down and falls asleep independently! we have been working very hard on that for a few months now and are very happy with his improvements! its the staying asleep for naps that have us in a bind. and he does have nw and ew to deal with so i thought i'd give sh/pat a go today to see if it would be effective for these issues! so, when he woke from his 40 min nap, i picked him up to calm him down, then laid him back in his crib, turned him onto his side and started sh/pat...i found that soft shhing and light patting worked best for him...i had him turned on his side and patted his middle back in a heartbeat motion...he settled a few times and then came out of it...and then finally settled.! yeah! so, i kept at it for about another 5-10 mins, then slowly lowered him back onto his back while shhing and then jumped to the floor as i saw his eyes open...but he resttled and went back to sleep! its now been 30 mins and i havent heard from him yet! does this sounds about right? i dont swaddle at night anymore b/c i thikn he was waking himself up trying to get out of it...how do i do it for nighttime if hes just in a sleepsack?

[Adaias mom]

You could roll up a towel to tuck under him to prop him on his side whilst shh patting him, or try just shhhing softly and put your hand on his chest. If he is able to fall asleep indepently then i think it could be his A time that is wrong. Post your EASY, what you and aiming for and i'll have a look. Also when he wakes after 40mins does he wake happy or grumpy. You sound like you are doing fab. So glad for your success. Makes it all worth it when you see it working! Also NWs and EWs (apart from hunger wakes) could be due to OT as he doesn't nap well during the day, so you may find that these will temper down once he is sleeping better during the day, but during the night you just keep going until he falls asleep. This can feel like an AGE in the midst of the night. Remember tho that he may wake in the night and be mantre crying to resettle himself, so don't rush in and always give him a chance on NWs to settle himself back down before going in to help. Obviously only you will know his cries and i am in no way telling you to let him CIO. If he is crying for you then go to him, but stop and listen to him before rushing to him in the night. xxx

[aselby]

thanks for having a look:

i am brand spankin new to easy...i have no idea where to begin....i have been keeping sleep logs for 2 months now so i can post what the last 48 hrs have looked like:

wed:
730awake
830eat
930asleep incar
1000awake
1120 eat
1145asleep
1215awake
rockedbacktosleep
1240asleep
145awake
300eat
320asleep
500awake
600bath/winddown
630eat
645asleep
1115eat
215eat
550am eat

thurs:
700 eat
820asleep
900awake
1000eat
1020asleep
1100awake
sh/pat starting at 1120 until 1230
1230asleep
105awake

thats where we are up until now...hes is tired! but so happy when he wakes up....his nights are a mess as are his days..i would love to see a 7-7 schedule work for us;. he is 4.5 months old. any help would be awesome!

[Adaias mom]

Well looking at your EASY i would say you have an OT bub on your hands there, thats why you are getting constant 30 - 40 min naps. On day 1 your first A time was 2 hrs. At this age you should be looking at 1hr 45 mins to 2 hrs, some do have more and some have less. I would say that you bub needs less at the moment. As some advice i would say cut your A times back to say 1hr 15mins to 1.5hrs, and see what he does. If you get 45 min naps you have cut it too far and put another 5 mins on, if you continue to get 30 mins cut it back further. If he is OT his A times will be drastically reduced and you need to get some sleep into him, so cut his A times for a few days and see how he does. You have done the hard part getting him to go to sleep indepently, you now just need to help him get over the OT. Hopefully things will improve then. If needs be, you can AP him to get him to get some sleep, and then continue sleep training once he is a bit more rested, but if you aren't keen on this, then try cutting his times and hopefully you'll see some results. HTH and good luck. Keep me posted and if you need anything else, even just a hug i'll be here xx

[aselby]

thank you so much. i am so tired and so need help. i just dont get how you can time things in increments of 5 mins? i never know exactly when he's going to shut his eyes and fall asleep?! all i can do is go by his cues and put him down when he seems ready....how do i add/subtract 5 mins at a time?

[Adaias mom]

Its all about getting the WD time right, so your bub is ready to go to bed at this time. It is impossible to get the A time exactly right so that he falls asleep to the minute but if you know he usually takes 10 mins to fall asleep and then your WD is 5 mins, then you just plan to start the WD 5 - 10 mins earlier later. Following Sleep cues is exactly what you need to be doing, but sometimes when OT has settled in they can be unreliable so when he is OT then sort of follow the clock also so to ensure you get him down before he gets even more OT IYKWIM. Hows things going. Sorry i've not been around for the last few days xxx

[aselby]

hey! thanks for writing....well, we're still trying to get the right a time down....been fiddling around with those for the last week or so....i think i have found the right time today...2hrs....i dont know how it happened...it was for the 2nd nap..after a short (40 min) 1st nap....we've been experiementing with the first a time anywhere between 1.45-2.25hr....and they all produce 30-40min naps...so, this morning after he woke up, we ran out for a quick errand and then came home at the 1.5 mark...he was fussy and it was getting close to a feed, so i fed him and he fell asleep...i woke him up and he started to cry...so i swaddled him and put him down and off he went...for 2 hrs! he woke up a few times..never crying, just little squeaks here and there,,,...wonder if 2 hrs is our a time? what do you think?

[Adaias mom]

Sounds Brill. Well done you and bub!!! 2 hrs you must have been wondering what the hell to do with yourself ha ha. Only way to confirm that you have the right A time is to keep with it for a few days (3 min) and see how it goes xxx

[aselby]

you are funny! i was at a loss for stuff to do! i did check on him 100x to make sure he was alive! so...do 2 hr a times for every nap for the next 3 days to see if its right? good to know...thanks for your help!

[Adaias mom]

Good plan! Just remember to adjust if he short naps or seems very tired earlier. Don't keep him up for the full 2 hours if he is showing tired at say 1hr 45 mins as you will end up with an OT bub. Do what feels right. Good luck and keep me posted xxx