help wanted one routine for 5.5 month baby

[huby]

hi

I have a 5.5 month baby, and i am struggling with routines. Sometimes she goes down and settles for naps brilliantly, no crying, no fussing and sleeps, others she fusses, cries and wakes after 35 mins.

Can anyone recommend a structure to her day for me, as what I try seems to fail.
At the mo I have to extend all her naps (though she can self settle) using shhh pat varient. This used to work for morning nap, but not anymore. I can usually extend afternoon nap to 1.5 hours with five mins or so of fussing.

At the mo, it's

wake at 6.38
E 7am (cereal and baby milk)
A
S 8.25 (tried later but she gets overtired and fights naps) - 45mins max. Used to be able to extend this one -often fights it

E 11am small amount of solids (purred veg) and a milke feed.
A
S 11.40, 11.45, asleep by 12 latest. Sleeps sometimes 35 / 45 mins. Once slept for one and a half hours. Can extend this nap but never beyond two cycles.

E 3pm milk
A
S sometimes a catnap of 34 mins or so around 3.30- 4.30

E 6.30pm
A masage before bed
S Asleep by 7pm, usually settles herself fine. Wakes once for a night feed.

Any suggestions or help appreciated. I tried putting her to bed closer to 9am than 8.35 / 8.40 this morning and she kicked aqnd fussed a lot and has been overtired all day

Thanks

[*Liz*]

I think she is UT despite you struggling to extend her A time. Some LO's do get a bit stuck from time to time, especially if they have been on the same routine for a while as their body clocks 'set' to it so they think they are tired but not tired enough to sleep properly.

This is especially true of angel and textbook babies.

What often breaks this cycle is doing some super low key A time for 5-10 mins before the winddown - so a walk around the house looking at things or a gentle song and massage during a napy change so it is kind of part of the winddown but just draws it out a bit. After a few days of this type of super low key A you can often convert it to normal A without causing any OT.

I suspect you can no longer extend as she is no longer tired enough to want to extend.

So I would try and move her very gently by 10 mins at that first nap - then stick there for a few days and we can re-evaluate 

HTH

[huby]

hello there. thank for your response. i'm really really struggling to get her into a routine as she wakes a different time each morning. She used to wake at night for a feed, but since started weaning and she's on two meals a day so far, she started to wake up at 5.40, and this morning 5.20. makes keeping a consistent start to the day and therefore sleep times impossible.
Do you have any suggestions. Do I shhh pat her until asleep again or try feeding her? I gave her four oz this morn at 5.20 which she drunk, then shh patted her back to sleep. it took about an hour to get her back to sleep and then she only slept for 45 mins, until about 7.30am.
I'd love to get her into a routine or some sort - but need to sort her wake up time.

[*Liz*]

We often suggest splitting the solids and milk feed so the E is still all milk and the solids is part of the A time. Doing them together often causes a drop in the amount of milk taken and then NWs or EWs for food. Milk is most important for calories and growth at this age, and any replaced by pureed fruit or veg will be less calories that they then need to make up elsewhere. So I would do her Milk at 7am like I guess you did before and then do solids seperately 1hr later so she has digested enough of the milk to still be hungry.

Is bedtime always 7pm? If she has slept less than 11hrs I would try and get her back to sleep, otherwise I would just get her up and start the day.

[huby]

Hi there,

It's the longest she's ever slept while on the solids - and she drinks all her milk still too.
Do you think I should introduce a dreamfeed, or is that one extra feed to wean her off in a couple of weeks.
Should i feed her at 5.30? I did this morning (half a feed) and she left her breakfast milk as was too uninterested.

[*Liz*]

What time of night is she usually feeding for the night feed?

You could try a DF - works for some but we do recommend weaning at about 7 mths as it actually becomes disruptive to sleep as they get older.

The 5.30am feed is a tough one - she is unlikely to sleep again without it but very unlikely to take a full feed again at 7am with it iyswim?

Can you post your routine from yesterday with naps etc that caused the 5.30am wake up and we can see if there is a routine issue rather than a feed issue. That CN can often cause trouble at this age for a few weeks until they drop it completely.

If you feed at 5.30am does she go back to sleep? and If the milk feed at 7am is small will it ruin her first nap or not?

[huby]

hello there,

i have it written down somewhere, she got up the morning before at 5.40, so I did this:
She needed a nap by 7.45, and then 10.30 lunch and 11.30 nap (extended 1.5 hours)
then she had a catnap at 4.15pm and then bed and asleep by 7pm.
She still woke up early
Thinking about it, it's been going from 7, 6.50, 6,40, 6.39, and then 5.40, 5.20...i dread what it'll be this morning!
I;ll leave the dreamfeed then, especially as that same night she woke at 11.44pm for a feed, and still woke at 5.40.
MY DH got her out of bed, which i think was a mistake, so am keeping her in her cot until 6am, and then getting her up for a feed if she won't settle. She didn't settle for an hour this morning and then only slept for 45mins when she did, taking us to 7.30am

Perhaps I should give her less food, or some cooled boiled water. I have no idea what to do

[*Liz*]

You might be getting a bit of chaos as she gets ready to drop her CN  . But the other naps are not good enough yet are they?

Hmmm...

Post what happens tonight and tomorrow in EAS format and we will try and get a plan in place.

I have a feeling this is routine related rather than feeds - likely due to too much sleep in the morning and too little in the pm so being OT at bedtime and getting less than 11hrs sleep overnight.

[huby]

i agree with you. She got up at 11.44pm for a feed. Took 8 oz but didn't seem that bothered either way...i can usually tell. She then did a huge poo but actually slept through it! until I woke her up at 7am.
She only took half her milk despite the gap...she just didn't seem that hungry.

She slept (extended) two hours at lunchtime yesterday, but only 30 mins during the moring...i have a feeling i'm spacing naps incorrectly.
 
I gave her a 20 min catnap at 5.15 to get her through to bedtime and then woke her up - she cried, but then she lasted to bedtime, gurgled and chatted and then fell asleep.

[*Liz*]

Nap transitions are tricky - but as she approaches 6 mths her A will usually extend to nearer to 2.5hrs. The CN can only really be dropped completely once they can handle 3hrs A.

Until we get those naps properly established I would do all I can to get that CN in - including using AP in the buggy or whatever to get it.

What we need is 2 long naps, and a CN if one of them is short for now.

Happy to look at the routine again if you would like to post and update.

[huby]

hello
Thanks.
I'm begining to get deflated that she doesn't sleep longer on her own...i wonder if i am becoming a prop by shh patting her back to sleep?

Anyway, she got up at 11.44pm for a feed last night and then i woke her at 7am

E 7am wake milk and solids.
A
S 9.15am-9.50am (35mins) (Tried 9am, but she was soo UT, left it and tried again 15 mins later...she fell straight to sleep)
woke up happy and lasted well until lunchtime

E 11am milk and solids
A
S 12.15 (straigt to sleep) - 2.20. But had to extend nap twice with crying inbetween.

E 3pm milk
A
S catnap at 5.15 - 5.45 (would not take one earlier)

A winddown at 6.15
E 6.30
A popped into sleeping bag and burped
S asleep by 6.45

Do you think she will get the longer naps or am i just being a prop and stopping her learning?

Thanks