Author Topic: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!  (Read 22490 times)

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Offline *Liz*

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #150 on: March 25, 2010, 12:35:34 pm »
I'm waiting for the day I do that with J as it has been SO long since we had any nappy issues that I don't even think to check now  :-[.

((hugs)) to you.

Interesting thread Laura - illustrates nicely that some kids genuinely will NOT sleep as much as a book says they will.

Offline *Becky*

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #151 on: March 25, 2010, 14:44:38 pm »
hugs hun - this is so tough. I think the idea that Liz said of capping the nap and setting a bedtime is def worth a try and then doing it for a week regardless of what happens to see if it helps. It can't be much harder for you than it is now and he might respond well to something very 'set' iykwim.
bx




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Offline babybarr

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #152 on: March 25, 2010, 17:12:08 pm »
So day 1 didn't go to plan!  My mum fell asleep during DS's nap (or at least that's what she told me) so he had 75mins ::)  I'm doing bed for 7pm. 

I wish we coul get a good night and then I would feel less bad about cutting the nap, but as my friend said at the mo we're constantly playing catch up, he has a bad night so he has a nap and then has a bad night, maybe just maybe if he did have a significantly shorter nap he'd have a better night more often.
LAURA xx




Offline Roseii

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #153 on: March 25, 2010, 21:32:02 pm »
Just (((hugs))) Laura. Wish *so* much that I had any decent advice for you :( I think sticking rigidly to nap and bedtimes is a really good idea, and given that it can't get much worse I would keep going and going with it if I were you, you never know after a month it might make a difference. So much good luck :-*
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Offline Roseii

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #154 on: March 25, 2010, 22:25:36 pm »
General > Health, Medical, & Special Needs (Moderator: mouse mom) > Medical Possibilities for 5-6 hr Nwings? Please help!

Sorry I have no idea how to post links, just wondering if you had seen this Laura? The LO is quite a lot younger but maybe you two might find some common ground...

x
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Offline babybarr

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #155 on: March 26, 2010, 12:36:54 pm »
Thanks for that Charli, I'm going to pop over there in a bit.

For the last 3 mornings we are now having the NWs tagged onto the mornings and therefore giving us EWs.

This morning another 4am wake...  and just when I thought it couldn't get any worse. :(

My mum has DS again today so we'll have to see what happens...
LAURA xx




Offline *Liz*

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #156 on: March 26, 2010, 12:55:09 pm »
((hugs)) Laura.

Was it just chattering again? Or crying and needing Mummy?

Offline babybarr

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #157 on: March 26, 2010, 12:58:34 pm »
Or crying and needing Mummy?
He never needs me :(  Maybe if he did he'd go back to sleep when he got me  :-\  He just lies there awake, sometimes will sit up, sometimes practises his words or other actions.  I guess he has got so used to just being alone for prolonged periods of time in the darkness he invents things to do!  He wasn't happy chatty though.
LAURA xx




Offline *Liz*

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #158 on: March 26, 2010, 13:11:57 pm »
But that is UT type behaviour isn't it? In a way?

Offline MLK

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #159 on: March 26, 2010, 13:14:27 pm »
OK this might sound really crazy, but there is a kids sleep clinic where I work and what they do with cases of chronic insomnia with long periods of wakefulness like your DS is to shift bedtime later so that the child would sleep a solid stretch without waking up. I don't know how naps fit into this but I'd guess minimal naps to make sure the nights are OK. Once the child is sleeping well throughout the night for a few days the bedtime is gradually shifted earlier I think, but if the NWs start again then it is pushed back by 30 mins or so.

Of course there is the danger of OT creeping in but I think the main goal is to get the child going to bed at night and sleeping straight through until morning - even if it is only for 8 hours the first couple of nights. Then the nights gradually extend.

Not sure if it's too scary to try but I guess if you're desperate? So if he woke at 4am today, well maybe 1 hr nap and bed at 8 or 9pm? He will be shattered but hopefully would sleep through until morning. If it doesn't work, well at least you know you can rule that one out.

But I really think he is super low sleep needs, so I definitely wouldn't have any early pre-7pm bedtimes no matter what his day is like. To me it would seem his ideal routine would be something like 1 hr nap somewhere, bedtime 8-9pm with wake-up 10 hrs later. I know it's only 11 hours in the day but maybe that's all he needs?

I just see a cycle here - horrible day, good night to catch up and then the next day he is put to bed around 7pm and then has a long NW in the night. I really think it's because he's not that tired!

Offline babybarr

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #160 on: March 26, 2010, 13:59:15 pm »
Thanks and yes maybe he does just need loads less sleep than most!

MLK - thank you for the suggestions.  I will definitely have a think on them.  My concern is sometimes he can wake up much earlier than 4am (TBH these have been the longest stretches he has slept for a while)  I think he uses the naps as catch up for his nights rather than the other way around iyswim?  I'd just get a very irritable cranky child (who'd fall asleep in the car) if he'd only had 6/7/8 hrs sleep.  It is something to consider though, so many thanks.
LAURA xx




Offline babybarr

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #161 on: March 26, 2010, 15:17:50 pm »
Please vote....

Do you think I should do a no nap day Sunday given that the clocks go forward tomorrow, he'll probably lie in a bit (hopefully) Sunday morning if he has had a bad night and then I can put him to bed usual time which will be an hour early according to his bodyclock and see what happens? 

I am scared, and not sure how we'll keep him going, but think if I'm going to try it then Sunday would be a good day to do it.
LAURA xx




Offline Tweakster

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #162 on: March 26, 2010, 15:42:11 pm »
OK this might sound really crazy, but there is a kids sleep clinic where I work and what they do with cases of chronic insomnia with long periods of wakefulness like your DS is to shift bedtime later so that the child would sleep a solid stretch without waking up. I don't know how naps fit into this but I'd guess minimal naps to make sure the nights are OK. Once the child is sleeping well throughout the night for a few days the bedtime is gradually shifted earlier I think, but if the NWs start again then it is pushed back by 30 mins or so.

Of course there is the danger of OT creeping in but I think the main goal is to get the child going to bed at night and sleeping straight through until morning - even if it is only for 8 hours the first couple of nights. Then the nights gradually extend.

Not sure if it's too scary to try but I guess if you're desperate? So if he woke at 4am today, well maybe 1 hr nap and bed at 8 or 9pm? He will be shattered but hopefully would sleep through until morning. If it doesn't work, well at least you know you can rule that one out.

But I really think he is super low sleep needs, so I definitely wouldn't have any early pre-7pm bedtimes no matter what his day is like. To me it would seem his ideal routine would be something like 1 hr nap somewhere, bedtime 8-9pm with wake-up 10 hrs later. I know it's only 11 hours in the day but maybe that's all he needs?

I just see a cycle here - horrible day, good night to catch up and then the next day he is put to bed around 7pm and then has a long NW in the night. I really think it's because he's not that tired!
Actually read this in a book too, and it's something we are considering when Finn's a bit older.  I see our future and this is it really.

Liz mentions the UT behaviour, Finn is the same after that 10 hour stretch he just sits in there, chatting, babbling, doing whatever, not really needing us but not really happy about being awake either.  He's really been doing it since around 4-5 mths of age!  But the problem is, if you leave them to it and he doesn't go back to sleep, what do you do with a kid that has been up since 4 a.m.?  Our paed keeps telling us to leave him since he's not 'crying', yet if we do leave him he will just be up and eventually want some company.  Sure we could try to go back to sleep and ignore him, but then when we do get up we have a hideously tired kid for the day.  So is it worth it?  I don't know.  That's why I started the post on low sleep needs kids because I never know if I really have one or if it's truly just another UT/OT loop going on as has been since day 1.  If he is truly low sleep needs then I have to try to work with that rather than forcing more sleep into him. 

Sometimes I think you have to just do the total opposite of anything you have already done.  If you are always thinking OT then think UT, think low sleep needs, and start to give him less sleep to see how he gets on.  Come at it from a different angle.

I personally would give your no nap a try.  You can always fall back to where you are now. 
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Offline mmom

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #163 on: March 26, 2010, 16:16:42 pm »
Ugh Laura.  My heart seriously goes out to you.  I don't know how you have managed this long.

I think you should try no nap.  It is one of the few things you have tried.  If that doesn't work after a few days, I would MLK's method a try as well.  You have nothing to lose at this point and why not see if either method will help you?
Kara


Offline grace annes mommy

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Re: Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!
« Reply #164 on: March 26, 2010, 17:14:09 pm »
I agree. You've got nothing to lose.

Go for no nap. If it doesn't pan out, I think MLK's plan is your next option.  Really, you've tried everything else.

Good luck!