calling MSPI veterans....need advice quick....grumpy baby alert!!

[lilisuze]

Need help!

Basically, the story so far......DS was fine on EBF until 10 weeks old, then started puking. By 15 weeks he was being sick (little blups) 25+ times per day and very grumpy. His oesophagus was irritated and so was he.

It took til he was 7 months for someone to take me seriously about MPI when he was put on soy milk.

Then the happy baby we knew was hiding inside showed himself.

Now things have changed. He is still on the soy formula for morning and nightime beakers.
1. Naps have gone wonky (down to short naps again now)
2. Behaviour is terrible, crying, grizzly, needs dummy a lot ( could be due to the short naps!!)
3. excema has got really bad, some crusty bits some just rough pink skin on legs, tummy, back and arms
4. A couple of small sicks

Could he be getting intolerant to the soy now? and where do i start sprting this out?

Lili xx

[scarlettsmom]

Hi there big big (((Hugs))).

He *could* be reacting to soy, but I would be very surprised since he's been on it so long and with good results.

What I would wonder is what, if anything, in his diet (solids wise) is new?  Any new spices?  A new sauce that may contain dairy?  Any old standbys that may have changed their ingredients (this unfortunately happens a lot). 

Could he be teething?  What about a new fabric detergant? 

It can be so frustrating and overwhelming...but we'll do our best to help sort it out!  Let's start with the above and we'll go from there.  Also - regarding the excema - are you putting anything on it (like hydrocortisone, aquaphor, that kind of stuff?)

 

[lilisuze]

Thanks.....

a bit more info: very gassy! and snotty! this has been going on for about 8 weeks now.

Diet wise, things are just as they have been for a while, he moved onto table foods at around christmas time, so i dont puree or mash things any more. Most of the time he has sandwiches or soup for one meal a day and then a main dinner like what we have for the other meal. so i suppose there could be different spices or things. Mostly i cook dinners right from scratch so stews/pasta meals with tomato/jacket potatos etc. Never any milk.....There isnt much in his actual diet i can attribute a reaction to kwim?

He could be teething, he has 12 teeth already, so canines waiting to come through. Its hard to have a feel (he is a biter lol) but the gums still look soft between the molars and the front teeth.

We have changed washing powder, but still have non-bio. i could try to swap back and see if any change happens.

Regarding treating the excema, we were using some emollients from the doctor (doublebase and diprobase) with Hydrocortisone for particularly bad bits but with very little effect. TBH the best effect we have had in soothing it is body shop's hemp body butter!

The reason i have been thinking it might be the soy milk is that this is exactly how he was behaving before we went onto soy (screaming a lot for no apparent reason and gripey etc etc). I just dont want it to carry on with him grumpy and me stressed dealing with him all the time!! Its so easy to reason away everything, teething=bad sleeping=grumpiness=fussy eating and i just want to be sure this is normal behaviour before i give up on the possibility of soy intolerance.

Thanks for listening

Lilixx

[Mashi]

Oh Lil, was so gutted to see that you are still having troubles! My first reaction is the same as Tari's -- that teething and the "normal" chaos of the naps at this age (new to one nap, etc) could be a lot of what the emotional/behavioural symptoms are.   At the same time, what does your instinct tell you? KWIM?  Like, we went through a huge bout of similar stuff and I casually mentioned it to the paed at a routine appt (sort of like a "how is his behaviour?" and I said "ah, you know, the age he's at and blah blah blah") and her first reaction was to say that he needed to go off milk ASAP that it was a sign he had not in fact outgrown his MSPI....but I just "felt" that was not the case, instinct goes a long way, iykwim?

With the miserable weather and snow that England has been having, have you had to turn your heat on or up more often than normal? Such a humid climate, if the heat has been on and the weather much drier than normal that may be affecting his skin as well....just a thought.  How are you finding the Diprobase? That was the first thing we were given for DS's eczema as a baby (by the HV) and it made it so much worse every time I applied it. DH used to say that, and I brushed him off as being stupid, but then my own eczema broke out and I used some of it and instantly my skin was stinging, burning, itchy and much worse than before. MY GP gave us Aveeno lotion and bath oil - can buy it OTC but also on script (so free!) and Epaderm. I use the Aveeno daily and the Epaderm when we get break outs and it is aaaammmmaaaazing stuff. 

The sicks....if he's really snotty do you think it could be related?

And, with the congestion, did he get this with any of his other teeth? DS has always had bouts of runny noses and a bit of congestion before all of his teeth, but with his upper canines he's been completely bunged up for a good 3 weeks now.  As the teeth shift it really affects the sinus cavity - so could be another sign of early teething?

But as I said, I think that if your instinct says it might be food related, then you know best!  But I know for me that I would be in such denial about it at this stage that I would fully blame it on everything else possible before trying a soy elimination at this point. 

[scarlettsmom]

Agree completely with going with your gut...that is key!

Also - the reason I mentioned teething is that DD2 just cut her canines (has her molars already like your LO) and it was VERY challenging.  Omg, the constant whining whining whining, grumpiness, awful sleep.  I did think a few times that maybe it was a reaction to something - but, when I looked in her mouth her gums were bleeding and bulging...so I knew it was teething.  We had to stay at my parents for several days during a snowstorm and they couldn't believe how she was acting...she's usually sooo happy and smiley smiley....but she was miserable.  It was really tough.  She just cut her last one a few days ago, and TOTALLY different child. 

So really the only way to know for sure is to ride it out and see how he is once his teeth cut through (even though he's showing no signs) OR get a scratch test for soy, or just eliminate it yourself and see what happens.  I really really don't think it's the soy, and I really really hope not - but you never know.  Wish I had more concrete answers, I know how incredibly challenging it can be for the whole family.

(btw - have you tried some tylenol or motrin?  just to see if it helps a little??)

 

[lilisuze]

its so hard to know if its just a developmental "stage" !!!!!

As you guys both say, the problems are so very vague! As i said before, I have been putting this down to 2-1 switch and possible teething since december, its now the end of feb. DH is getting stressed about his behaviour (as am I) he used to be so happy (both DH and DS!)

Never even thought before about the heating or the washing powder, but whatever, i need something better for DS's skin. He looks so dreadful i cant even bear to take him swimming! And to make it worse, the big patch on his belly looks like a perfect handprint of an adult (like i burned him with a glove or something!)

I will make a big effort to look at his gums (mashi - heaven knows how as he bites like minimashi!) and let you know what baby clinic says tomorrow

Lilixx
.

[Mashi]

As you guys both say, the problems are so very vague! As i said before, I have been putting this down to 2-1 switch and possible teething since december, its now the end of feb. DH is getting stressed about his behaviour (as am I) he used to be so happy (both DH and DS!)

Well, to give you some additional perspective, we have been going through similar since about Christmas as well.  DH keeps trying to tell me that it is a long time to "blame teeth" but looking in his mouth...ouch!  Is your DS talking at all yet? Mine is not, not a word at all, and that adds to a lot of it. He wants wants wants but can't tell us what.  He's got about 50 signs but sometimes it's just not enough for him!  So we do still blame teeth, here.  And just the age in general!

Never even thought before about the heating or the washing powder, but whatever, i need something better for DS's skin.

Have you tried ecoballs?  You can buy them on amazon, they are about 30 quid but whatever the number of washes they are supposed to last it does work out to be more than 30 quids' worth of laundry soap.  And they have a 30 day guarantee so you can try them for a month and if you don't like them just send them back. 

I'd also see if you can get some Epaderm, the HV can prescribe it so don't need to see the GP. It is thick thick thick like goosefat almost, and we put it on before bed and in the mornings, the roughest patches that DS gets are usually gone within 48 hours and the nasty patches I get which are MUCH worse usually 3 days if I apply diligently. 

[*Becky*]

I second the Epaderm - it is really good x

[MLK]

If you are not sure and the problems seem to be ongoing, you can try eliminating the soy from his diet for 2 weeks and re-introducing. My paedieatrician always thought this was the most reliable way to test for children under 2.

[lilisuze]

mlk - it may be worth a try. what do i substitute the soy milk for? r

[MLK]

Well I make my own "milk" as an eggnog made from a mix of rice/quinoa milk and coconut milk - recipe in the MSPI recipes sticky. But it is time consuming and a lot of mothers just use a mix of coconut and rice milk. You can add vanilla and/or a sweetener like maple syrup to make it a bit more palatable. The info is also in a sticky in this forum.

[scarlettsmom]

Oh wow!!  (the handprint rash on his belly....)  Poor little guy.   

Looking forward to hearing what the ped said. 

If you still feel unsure, not convinced after the appointment,.....we'll hold your hand while you cut the soy!  It shouldn't be very difficult and could yield lots of results.

xo

[lilisuze]

mashi, i forgot to say about his language before.
He is talking a lot but not really much of any use. Basic things (mama, dada, nappy, yeah, please (although it comes out like pea) and ta)
He can say almost all animal names/noises and name tv show characters eg "peppa" (bad parent i know!) and toys etc (car,book)
he can copy things if you say them like "can you say biscuit" and he says "biccit"
If i say "do you want a biscuit" he says "yeah" (of course - who wouldnt!)

He doesnt say no, but he turns away from food if he doesnt want any more! He can give me the plate if he is done eating, or tidy up onto the floor all the peas he doesnt want!

I think he probably has enough language to fill his little world right up at the moment, I know it must be frustrating for him sometimes, but as you say, he can drag me or grunt at me till i understand most of the time!

Lili xx

(ps i really appreciate all of you working through this with me)

[lilisuze]

back from the docs.......

She prescribed us the aveeno cream and bath oil. and said we needed some hydrocortisone to sort out the mess!!!

She also said she thought it was unlikely to be the soy cousing the issues, that he was obviously teething because of all the dribble (she obviously does not know that we have been a 10bibs a day kinda family since 12 weeks!) and basically all the things that you guys said.

So well done everyone!

I am going to try and sort the skin now, and deal with the grumpiness with calpol for a few days before doing a soymilk elimination.

feeling more reassured now, and ready to fight with the slippery blighter in the bath!

Lili xx

[Mashi]

Hope the hydrocortizone works and glad you got the Aveeno....it really is good stuff. I was doubtful when my GP prescribed it as I wanted something that was meant for eczema but she swore by it with her own MSPI kids and aside from when we have a flare up and need the Epaderm, the Aveeno works wonders.  The bath oil is not slippery at all, you only need a tiny bit in the water!

Let us know how things go!