Author Topic: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right  (Read 17317 times)

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Offline Yazzie

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2010, 22:25:54 pm »
I'm worried 2.30 for that first A may be too long, what abt 2.15~2.20?
Adam's Mum




Offline Mjaz

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2010, 01:05:05 am »
Wow - really?  OK!  Every time I try that time I get a UT nap - but I will try again :)  Maybe I've made him OT by pushing him to 2:30/2:45.

Hmph.
Melinda






Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2010, 01:42:45 am »
So no set nap after all?  You were inspiring me!   I have to say I'd vote for pushing the first A, too. That's what I would try next if I were you. Sorry to be a dissenter!  :-\
*Kate*



Offline Mjaz

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2010, 02:07:32 am »
Ha ha Kate - *I* was inspiring you???  Oy.  I am going to try a few things for the next few days - and then go to set naps next week if nothing is working.  That's the plan.
Melinda






Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2010, 02:20:08 am »
Haha.  Well you were at least inspiring me to try the set naps!  The thought that someone else could be with me in the land of the OT LO, anyhow! 

Let me know how your tweaking goes and I'll let you know how the set naps go for us tomorrow.  No nap before 9am tomorrow no matter the wake up!  He will make it!  :D
*Kate*



Offline C_mother

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2010, 02:21:06 am »
Yikes, waking a baby who has been up off and on since 4!! Aww, to be a grandparent...

Okay, I think that if you want to go with the advice from the NW board, then maybe a bit more than 2:20 may be warranted. If pushing the first A is the 'best' way to deal with EWs, then I think that you do need to *push* a bit. If you think about it, the first A is probably the most appropriate one to push if you need to push (contingent on your confidence in extending a potentially OT nap that is!) because it can limit OT at the end of the day (which, I think, affects nights to most). Thinking more about your routine, LO has a lot of A time at the end of the day really (a fairly long A after a usually 1:15 afternoon nap, then a very short nap that doesn't give him a full respite, followed by another fairly long A). Perhaps a push at the start of the day would allow you to shorten up the end of the day a bit, avoiding any OT at bedtime.  Then, once the morning nap is pushed out sufficiently, you would be protecting yourself against these two most common predictors of EWs (i.e., the early morning nap and OT at bedtime).

I am certainly not an expert in all of this, so just brainstorming a bit!!

Oh, if it helps at all, we did 2:25 for the first two A times today, and got 1.5 hour naps.

Sometimes I think that we are just creating puzzles for ourselves with all of this when, in actuality, it is all random. Ha ha, I hope not!!

Best of luck  :D

Offline Yazzie

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2010, 09:19:37 am »
mmm, it's such a puzzle isn't it... ::)

My suggestion for 2.15~2.20 was based on what happened yesterday, so after 2.18 he gave you a 1.15mins nap & that was after a shaky morning/night, well my suggestion would be, if you have the same night, then go with 2.15~2.20 & see, otherwise, if he gives you a good night go for 2.30, it really is trial & error.. :-*

With both scenarios, I'd do 2.10~2.15 with the 2nd A time & then 2 for the last portion of the day, trying to think of alternatives..:)

So, how did things go?
Adam's Mum




Offline Mjaz

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2010, 14:10:39 pm »
Wow - I have so much great advice to sift through!  Thanks everyone. 

Just when I'm at my wits end - the child sleeps from 6:30-6:30 with a NW at 3am.  Now, the NW was a little rough.  He was AWAKE - but he got himself back after a bottle in about 15 minutes.  I heard him several other times last night - coughing!  Not sure what that is about b/c he doesn't have a cold - and I thought his teething was under control.  But I wonder if the cough is contributing to his wakes.  Anyhoo- I am running a humidifier.

So, I am trying not to get too excited, as I know this could be a fluke!  But, it was like heaven to sleep till 6:30 :)

He was rubbing his eyes like crazy at 2:15 A time this morning.  So I decided to get him in bed and try for a 2:25 total A.  He fell asleep at the 2:22 mark.  We shall see! 

C_Mother, can you talk more about what you said : "Then, once the morning nap is pushed out sufficiently, you would be protecting yourself against these two most common predictors of EWs (i.e., the early morning nap and OT at bedtime)."  Why is the early morning nap a common predictor of EWs?

Thank you all! 
Melinda






Offline Yazzie

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2010, 15:00:01 pm »
Tuned in for c_mother's reply, love to learn from all the wonderful ladies on the boards..:)...will be thinking of you, hope he gives you a good day..:)
Adam's Mum




Offline Mjaz

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2010, 15:06:19 pm »
Thanks, Yazzie.  A 2:22 A time resulted in a one hour nap.  OT?  UT?  SIGH. 
Melinda






Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2010, 15:09:48 pm »
I always find that I get on here and start a thread and then Austin totally changes up his song and dance!  But way to go Elijah, this is definitely a change for the better.  Here's hoping he keeps it up!

I thought that an early morning nap made it so that they just continue nighttime sleep during naptime and there's basically no incentive to wake up later since they'll catch up during naptime.  But definitely looking forward to what others think about it, too!  :D

Ooh.  Just saw your new post.  I hate the 1h nap.  It's so hard to read!   :P  I would go for a similar A for the next one and hopefully you'll get a good 2nd nap.  If he has another good night tonight, I'd try for 2h30 tomorrow even if he's rubbing his eyes.  If he's starting that routine, try a change of scenery or activity - he may be more bored than tired.
*Kate*



Offline Yazzie

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2010, 15:27:12 pm »
Can I go with Sigh..?:)

I'm thinking UT, I'd suggest 2.15~2.20 for the next A & let's see...you're on the right track mummy.. :-*

Just, so that you know u're not along, ds seems to be extending his A times @ the moment & I just so can't figure things out, lots of analysis, hopefully this all isn't random, just as a pp said..:)
Adam's Mum




Offline Mjaz

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2010, 15:36:45 pm »
Ha ha.  Yes, option "sigh" is a good one :)  I will push him to 2:30 tomorrow, b/c at least I get 1:15 with that!  Thanks.  Trying 2:10ish for second A b/c that's what gave MIL a good nap yesterday.  Fingers crossed.
Melinda






Offline Tweakster

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2010, 15:48:37 pm »
C_mother has hit it.  It pushes out the morning so they aren't always 'catching up' from waking up early at that first nap.  They view nap 1 as their night sleep extension and for early risers this is where they think 'oh well I'll get up early and then go back to bed' - and also it helps keep that A to bedtime shorter and sweeter so that there is less OT to contribute to EW. 

I don't really know all the logistics behind it...I just know it works. 

I know pushing is scary and so is the OT it can bring.  But I guess when everything has been tried and tested there is not much to lose - since it has worked for others and may just work for your LO.  But there is certainly no pressure here :-) 

Glad Elijah had a good night and you got some sleep!!
The tweaking never stops!

Offline C_mother

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Re: 6 mo. old EASY - can't get it right
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2010, 16:35:51 pm »
Yay!  A great night's sleep!! Almost perfect really :) I also prefer a NW for hunger to an EW.  ;D

Yazzie - oh dear, I think that you are right about adjusting the morning A based on the night sleep. I find myself lacking flexibility lately.  :P  I would imagine the nap should come a bit sooner if the night was short/broken? It is so tricky, isn't it?

I did some reading about sleep in academic journals when pregnant, and apparently there is a trend for babies who wake early to take naps sooner after rising. I think that in general terms we talk about them not having the incentive to go back to sleep when a long nap is coming, which is probably a good way to synthesize it. But, from what I remember, the reason also has to do with the chemicals that are produced in our bodies to induce arousal vs. sleep.  The morning nap does indeed become an extension of night sleep (in terms of how the brain functions, *I think*). Overall, if they wake early after quite a bit of sleep, then it is hard for them to fall back to sleep (I think that many moms can identify with this problem!!). So, they get up for a while, but their bodies have sufficient 'sleepy chemicals' to make them tired sooner and then take a good nap.  At the end of the nap, they probably feel more like they have woken up for the morning, not from a nap (I have definitely been there myself!).  From a practical standpoint (i.e., trying to get a baby to sleep later), the idea behind pushing out the first nap, is to get their bodies used to taking night sleep during the full night (from a biological perspective, inducing arousal/sleep states at more appropriate times). Not sure how easy it is to do though. If you read books targeted at parents regarding infant sleep, they often talk about the importance of the first nap (although some say do an early first nap and keep it short, and then do a long pm after a very long A -- so, who knows if that helps with EWs ???).

I am not sure of any scientific evidence about OT and EW - just read it on these boards over and over again (and unfortunately have some anecdotal evidence from DS too).  My heart goes out to them when they have an OT EW. I fed my little guy one morning after he woke early to get him back to sleep, and he actually jolted out of my arms - seriously. It frightened me; I can't imagine how he felt. Must be a bit like waking up by falling out of bed, or being hit by a frying pan ;)

I should qualify that I doubt there is any scientific research that has considered multiple predictors of EWs...I was basing my statement (i.e., that OT and the early nap are the best predictors of EWs) on what these boards say (and more generally, what sleep books seem to say). I am sure there are many reasons why they wake early, but it seems that many people have success with limiting them by address these two key issues.

So, in my opinion, I think that the advice on the NW board is probably quite reasonable.  Trying to keep the first nap at his max A, and then making sure that the day doesn't get too long.  However, hopefully none of this matters and he is already back to sleeping like a CHAMP!!

Argh on the 1 hr nap. Those always confuse me.  1 hr is the max length that I try to extend. Good luck this afternoon!