What to do

[amyn22]

My guy is almost 41/2 months old.  No matter what time we put him to sleep he is up at 1:30am on the dot.  We are trying not to feed him but he is screaming so bad.  We feed him an ounce and then put the paci in and he is asleep.   He then does the same thing at 4am. 

Is this habitual waking?  How can we get him out of this ?

[tarakay]

Can you post your routine in EAS format?  I'm wondering how often he's being fed during the day (and when his last meal is).  Also do you BF?

Have you tried just giving him the paci w/o feeding?

Lots of questions I know.  My gut says it's habitual b/c he's not taking a full feeding?!  You may want to try W2S if he's up like clockwork.  I haven't done this personally, but I hear it works well!

HTH- Tara

[amyn22]

I do not BF
Here is what a typical day looks like
9am E
9:15-10:30-A
10:30-12:30 S
12:30 E
12:45-1:45 A
1:45-3:30 S
3:30 E
3:30-6:30 A  (He will not sleep during this time, except for maybe a 15 minute catnap)
6:30 E
6:45-8 A
8:00pm -bedtime routine and asleep for the night.
10:30 dream feed

he is waking at 1:30 and 4am every night.
sometimes this schedule is off an hour or so as he wakes between 5am-6am for his morning bottle and then usually goes back to sleep for a bit. He is eating 5oz bottles except for 1am and 4am he is getting 1 oz each time.  The dream feed is usually 3 oz.

Thank you!
we are feeding him 5 oz bottles

[amyn22]

I also want to add that about a month ago, for about 2 weeks, he was sleeping from 10pm-5am straight through. 

also Saturday we were out late and fed him about 3 ounces at 11:30, he then slept until 4:30 without waking up.

[tarakay]

Amy-
I have a couple of thoughts here - not sure which ones might strike home? 

1: It looks like he's on a 3/3.5 hr eating routine right now.  Have you tried pushing back his feedings some toward the 4 hr mark?  (He's 4.5 mo, correct?)  My LO started going closer to 4 hrs btwn feedings a little before she was 4 mo.  When you do this, you may need to offer him MORE food at each feeding.  I BF, so I'm not exactly sure what amount would be appropriate?  Maybe try one oz more per feeding?

2: Have you tried starting his day a little earlier than 9?  9 is pretty late to begin the day - maybe wake him by 7:30 or 8 for his first meal and go from there.  We currently do about a 12 hr day and a 12 hr night (wake around 7, bed around 7) - that seems to be a common goal for this age.

3: I hate to mess with his A times b/c it looks like he's napping well, but his A times look very short (1:30 & 1:15 for the first 2 A's) for his age.  The goal at this age would be 1:45-2 hrs awake.  My LO has a hard time making it to 2 hrs w/o becoming OT, but I try to push her gently in that direction.

4: This could be a GS?  My LO just had one - it is common to have one around 4 mos.  She'd been STTN, but started waking.

5: Is he teething at all?  Sometimes that can cause NW's at this age?

6: Have you tried offering MORE than 3 oz at the DF?   Just curious if he'd maybe take a bit more then.

I know, lots to consider... like a recipe for disaster?!

Let me know if any of that helps - Tara

[amyn22]

Thank you! He was on a 3.5-4 hour feeding but now is going back towards 3.  I want to give him more formula, but I heard more than 32 ounces is not good for them, is this true?

He does eat between 5-6am every morning, plays for an hour and then back to sleep until 8-9.  I tried to get him to sleep through the 5am point but he wont.
I am now going to start 12 hour days.  Today he was up at 8am so we will put him down at 8pm thank you for that info.

He gets so mad when we try to keep him awake.  And then he has that one time (3pm-6pmish) that he does not sleep at all, is this normal?
I am going to tell his daycare to try to push his awake time.

he is not teething yet, we don't think, and it may be a growth spurt, I really don't know how to tell if it is.  I am new at all this  : )

I will have my husband offer more at the dreemfeed tonight and see how it goes.

[tarakay]

I think the backwards trend in length of time btwn feedings is a sign of a GS (at least it was for me) and that he needs more food at each feeding.  BW says up their calories during the day so they don't "need" to eat at night.  I don't know about the 32 oz rule - maybe check the bottle feeding boards?

I'm not sure about the 3-6 extended wake time - I'm sure it could be normal or he could be OT.  Does he go down to sleep well after that time?  If he goes down to sleep easily after that time, then it's probably normal - if not, then OT.  I know many LO's drop their cat nap around this age, so it's possible that it could be normal.

If it were me, I would decide what time I wanted the day to begin (ideally speaking - 7, 7:30, 8, etc) and feed him his first FULL feeding (5+ oz) then.  So, for example his day might be:

7 or 8 - E - 7 oz
11 or 12 - E - 7 oz
3 or 4 - E - 7 oz
7 or 8 - E - 7 oz
10:30 - DF - 4 oz (or more?)

Right now it sounds like he's in the habit of starting his day at 5/6 am.  Assuming you don't really WANT the day to start at 5/6, then I would try NOT to feed him then (use the paci or PU/PD to get him back to sleep).  If you can't get him back, I'd only give him a snack (3 oz or so) to tie him over to his first feeding at 7/8 am.

HTH!  Keep us posted-
Tara

[amyn22]

This sounds perfect!!!!!   
Thank you. Is it best to start tonight at his 8pm feeding? Or should we wait until tomorrow.

thanks!

[amyn22]

One more question I am sorry.  My husband takes Ds to daycare between 7 and 8am.  Is it best to start his day earlier? I just am afraid if I feed him at 6:30 before I leave for work that is too early.

[tarakay]

Hrm.. I would say both are a matter of personal preference? 

If it were me, I'd offer him more at the 8:00 feeding, but not so much that he refuses the DF.  Maybe keep it the same at 8 tonight and add more to the DF instead?

As for the start of the day - you need to pick what works best for you, keeping the roughly 12 hour day/night goal in mind.  6:30 am start of the day will likely translate to a 6:30/7:00ish bedtime.  If you are OK with that, then go for it.  If you'd rather have more time with your LO at night, then start the day a little later (7-8ish).  Does DH feed b4 taking him to daycare?

My LO is on the following ROUGH timeline (we swing 30 min in either direction depending on the day):

7:00a - E
11:00a - E
3:00p - E
6/6:30p - E (notice this one is a little shorter - she is always hungry by then, which sets up the DF better.)
Bed by 7:00ish
10:00p - DF

Thanks- Tara

[tarakay]

Hey Amy-
I was thinking about you (for some reason) today - how are things going?  Did you ever make any progress w/DS and his NW's?

Tara