7 months old has 10 hour nights overtired or is this normal?

[tracy28011984]

My baby is 7 1/2 months old and for a couple of months now he is having frequent night wakings of about 2-3 a night (but goes back off with his dummy), he has just got over a cold and already has two teeth and I think another on the way. 
The problem is he is only sleeping 10 hours a night regardless of what time I put him down for bed usually at 8pm so he wakes anywhere from 5.30p.m to 6a.m ready to start the day.
I would love to drop the catnap if I could get his last nap to end after 3.30p.m and go for an earlier bedtime of 7p.m but I'm too frightened he will only sleep until 5pm as he will only sleep 10 hrs.
When he wakes he will try and go back to sleep but then starts to cry after 30 mins or longer.
He is currently doing A time of 2hr45 or 3hr (just increased this as I was getting shorter naps). This helped for a while and I started getting better naps. His bedtime is 8.00p.m but I'm not sure if this is too late, should I try for 7/7.30p.m or should I try for later if he will only sleep for 10 hours and let him have a longer catnap.
He is swaddled for bed and naps still and has his dummy, I like him being swaddled at the moment because it's a good sleep cue for him and keeps him warm (very cold at the moment) I will tackle deswaddling in a few months time.

This is his routine at the moment:

6.00a.m. Awake (Should be but he is waking at 5.45a.m)
9.00 Nap (Usually 1 1/2hrs-but sometimes less if he has been up earlier than 6
10.30 Awake
1.15-1.30 Nap(Usually 1 1/2hrs but lately have become shorter)
2.30-3.00 Awake
5.15 Nap (45 Mins)
6.00 Awake
8.00 Bedtime

[A pair of Charlies]

Hi there 

I'm just about to log off so can't look over your EASY for ideas; will be back tomorrow! I didn't want to leave your post answered until tomorrow though 

A couple of links worth taking a look at, might help:
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164030.0
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=87109.0
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652 - looks like A time is pretty typical
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85134.0

Any Mamas with ideas or experience on this, please jump in and pay-it-forward!!  I'll be back tomorrow 

Charlotte

[brenda2]

his nighttime sleep will probably stretch out a bit once you drop the catnap.  i found my kids tended to do less at night when they were having too much daysleep...ie leading up to dropping a nap, and then once the nap was dropped started sleeping longer at night.

ikwim though about it being hard to drop the nap with such ews, and i usually go with a later bedtime in these cases too. usually i hope for one day of sleep in and then drop the nap that day.  but try increasing the A time again.  at least 3 hours A time and maybe you can have that second nap be a bit later.  if you can get him to sleep until 3:30 it would work.  i would do a bedtime as early as 6:30.

[tracy28011984]

Thanks for replies
Today he woke at 5.30a.m after 7pm bedtime I managed to get him back off at 6am for 45 mins then he went to nursery. At nursery they put him down for his first nap at 9.05 a.m and he slept until 11.10a.m. Then his 2nd nap they put him down too early I think at 1.10 and he only slept until 1.40p.m (30mins) so when i picked him up I gave him a catnap of 30 minutes from 4.30-5.00p.m (is that long enough do you think?). Thinking of giving him a bedtime at 7pm. Would you agree?

[brenda2]

have a chat with nursery.  if he woke up at 6:45 then his first nap should be at 9:45, not 9...and if his first nap ends at 11ish then they should keep him up until about 2 (3 hours) before putting him down for his second nap.  i think if you can get the A times right (aim for 3 hours) he'll start doing 2 long naps and sleeping longer at night.  when you drop him off at nursery maybe mention what time he woke up and what time you want him to be put down for the first nap

[tracy28011984]

Do you think his A time should be 3 hours on a morning e.g. like this morning when he woke at 5.30a.m was awake for 30 mins then asleep for 45 mins until 6.45a.m or should it be a little shorter. I said to nursery to put him down about 9am because I thought he had been up earlier and was only catnapping, don't know if this counts as a good sleep because he had awake time in between. what do you think?. When I picked him up I did mention to them that if he has a good nap 1 1/2-2 hrs to have his next nap 3hrs later even if he appears tired earlier because it may be due to him being bored of one activity. Thanks for advice, it helps when you have someone to relate to.

[brenda2]

Do you think his A time should be 3 hours on a morning e.g. like this morning when he woke at 5.30a.m was awake for 30 mins then asleep for 45 mins until 6.45a.m or should it be a little shorter. I said to nursery to put him down about 9am because I thought he had been up earlier and was only catnapping, don't know if this counts as a good sleep because he had awake time in between

yes it's a tough call.  i think he could have handled a little bit more A time than you gave him, 2 hours 15 in is really short.  my lo wakes up and chats/plays/lies still in the dark until i get her up and she can usually do her regular A time counted from the time i get her up, even if she was awake earlier.  so if the 30 min was in the dark trying to go back to sleep i would have aimed for 2 hours 45 min or something like that after he got up.  does that make sense?

 

When I picked him up I did mention to them that if he has a good nap 1 1/2-2 hrs to have his next nap 3hrs later even if he appears tired earlier because it may be due to him being bored of one activity.

good, i agree.  hope fully they will do it for you.

good luck!  let us know how it goes

[tracy28011984]

Thanks for reply!
So last night I put him down at 7.10p.m and after 5 mins I took his dummy out then he slept until 3am and started coughing he has a nasty chesty cough so i gave him his dummy and he slept until 5a.m coughing again so i gave dummy again and he went back off until 6.30a.m couldnt believe it I had the biggest smile on my face this morning. I've told my partner's mum to start wind down at 9.15a.m to aim to be asleep at 9.30a.m. I'll let you know what happens fingers crossed!

[tracy28011984]

 His naps have been so far 9.00-10.30 (put down too early by grandma even though i told her 9.30 then 1.00 til 2.00p.m (again too early) so I have given him a nap at 4.30 to 5 but he now has devloped a constant wheeze and his cough is getting worse so he has coughed all the way through this nap don't think he slept at all, going to put him to bed at 7pm. I rang the doctors and they said not to worry about a wheeze, poor thing he sounds terrible. Will keep you posted, how tonight goes.

[brenda2]

glad it's getting better.  keep working on extending his A time to 3 hours.  maybe reiterate to gramma that he may look sleepy after 2.5 hours because he is bored and maybe she needs to try to stimulate him a bit more to keep him awake.  maybe you can try to extend his A time over the weekend and then it will be easier for her on monday?  he did a good first nap (1.5 hours) first thing despite the 2.5 hours A time but an afternoon nap of only an hour definitely means she pput him down too soon. 

[tracy28011984]

Hi again so yesterday evening I took my lo to see the doctor because he had developed a constant wheeze, good job I did because he told me to take him to hospital. We were at hospital from 6pm-10pm and they had to give him an inhaler to help his wheeze and to get his oxygen levels back to normal. Then after a while he picked up a little bit so they gave us the option of staying so they could monitor him or to take him home where we could monitor him regularly and to give him his inhaler every 3/4 hrs. We decided to take him home because he just would not go to sleep at hospital and he was exhausted. He was awake from 5.00p.m yesterday until 11.00 last night with 5 minute catnaps now and then. We had a terrible night he was waking constantly because he could not settle. He did manage to have some sleep but it was not good sleep if you know what I mean. He woke at 7.15a.m this morning so I gave him his bottle but hes finding it difficult to drink them at the moment. At 8.00a.m he looked shattered and I tried putting him down to sleep but he wouldn't go. I've just put him down at 10.00a.m so fingers crossed he'll have a good nap and get back on track. I'm thinking if he has two good naps today I'll put him to bed at 7.00p.m and he can catch up on his sleep. Do you think I should have put him straight back to bed after his bottle this morning? Should his A Time be as long?

[brenda2]

it's hard when they're sick.  when my lo had croup (we had a similar experience with going to hospital etc but were there for over 7 hours and very little sleep, home in the middle of the night at 2 am etc) she slept almost all of the day the next day.  she would wake up for an hour and then sleep for 3 hours, wake up for an hour, sleep for 2 hours.  and she was 18 mo.  so just put him down when he looks tired.  don't worry about the A time, he'll need to catch up on sleep.

hugs 

[tracy28011984]

Just thought I'd fill you in on how things are going yesterday his routine looked like this:
Awake 7.15a.m
Sleep 10.00-11.40a.m
Sleep 2.30-4.00p.m
Bed at 7.00p.m

So he had two naps yes finally got there! and he slept until 7.00a.m this morning with 1 night waking at 5a.m where I gave him his dummy and he went straight back to sleep. I was a very happy mummy this morning! it's like that was my Mother's Day present.
I hope this continues with the two naps because thats what he obviously needs. Do you think if one of his naps are too short I should give him a 30 min catnap between 4-5. I think when I have him I will probably be able to stick to this routine but when he is at nursery or grandparents sometimes they don't even though I tell them what time I would like him to go to sleep and sometimes when he is elsewhere his naps arent as long.

[brenda2]

great!

i think if you keep doing this at home and he gets used to the 3 hour A time then it will be easier for the other caregivers to do the same with him.  if he wakes from nap #2 earlier than 3:30 then he would need another nap.  if he wakes at 3:30 do a 6:30 bedtime, if he wakes earlier like at 3 then a 20-30 min catnap around 5 and bed a bit later, like 7.  A time after a really short nap is very short.

[tracy28011984]

Today his first nap went great from 10.00-11.40 , we went out and his 2nd nap started at 2.30 and he woke at 3.00 tried everything but he wouldnt go back off i think he had an upset stomach (diarrhoea)so I give him a catnap at 4.50-5.20 do you think that's alright? Then I'm intending on putting him to bed at 7pm is that long enough?
Will let you know how things go, I think your right about him getting used to 3hr A time then slowly he will get used to naps at that time it's hard though to stay in the house for both naps but I will try and do it as much as possible.