Any ideas what's happening here? - night waking/feeding Q

[Aunty Vi]

Hi, just wondering if you have any thoughts about this, hope I have put it in the right place.
Our little girl is now 4 weeks old (yes I know, early days!) and we have got into a roughly 3-hour EASY routine, with cluster feeds at 6 and 8pm and a dreamfeed around 10.30-11, though she usually doesn't take much at the dreamfeed.

Usually, she will then last for about 3 1/2 hours before waking for her first night feed, which I guess is not bad for her age.  But recently, she has then started waking again quite soon after the first night feed - 2 hours or less - not much more than 1 hour last night!  The first few times I thought "she can't be hungry" as she had fed so soon before, and usually taken a reasonable feed then; but each time she does this we have found it impossible to settle her back to sleep using soothing, pacifier etc, and she has seemed to start doing hungry signs (rooting etc), so I have ended up feeding her and this was the only thing that would settle her.  Usually she will then go back to sleep and have a longer interval again before the next feed, or even last until morning.

What I don't understand is why she would be hungry so soon after the first night feed, when she can go 3 hours without a problem during the day?  Does this sound like a growth spurt (though she doesn't seem extra hungry during the day), or do you think she is waking for some other reason and I am mistaking this for hunger?  She doesn't usually get disturbed by things like wet nappies though; usually when she cries at other times it is either because she is hungry or tired. I would just like to know whether feeding is really what she needs when she wakes, even when it is so soon!  Thank you.

[shivi]

hi

congrats on your LO.
Some babies don't adapt well to the DF so early so if she is not taking much at the 10.30/11pm time (while asleep I presume) then perhaps she is making up for it by feeding extra often later in the night?

Myabe you could see what happens for 2 or 3 nights without a df? Perhaps she would wake at more regular intervals in that case - like 12 and 4 for instance....

Are you giving ebm in a bottle for df? or feeding directly from the breast?


One other thing  - my dd would settle well as a tiny infant and around an hour later would bring up the gas bubble  - this was the reason for her crying, and it would always be such a long time later!

My two took the df well but Oscar till around 9 or 10 weeks would wake at 2 and 5 for feeds anyway....so yes, it is early days.

good luck and try to get as much rest as you can.

S x

[Aunty Vi]

Mm yes maybe it would be worth trying no DF for a few nights.  Means I can get to bed earlier too!  I have been giving her ebm in a bottle just for the DF, as I can't get her to go on the breast at all when she is asleep - and even with the bottle she usually only takes around 2oz so far.  The only thing is some nights we don't manage to get her to settle properly after her 8pm feed until I give the DF, so I would still need to give it on those nights to help get her to bed at all!

Wind is another possibility I suppose, though I did try burping her again last night and it didn't seem to make much difference, also she doesn't seem a particularly windy baby in general; still I will keep an eye out whether it could be that.   Thanks for the advice!

[shivi]

Emma was a baby who just couldn't settle well in the evenings, cluster fed or not. I out it down to low supply specific to the evenings only - never had time to rest as had a spirited toddler around and DH working long hours from day 4.

So another idea I used (and only remembered reading your 2nd post) was using the 3 or 4 oz I had expressed in the mornings (when supply was much better) as a top off at 8pm or even 7pm without clustering in the end. this meant she settled beautifully and then I DF from the breast. (Always have with her in fact as she took to it no problems).

So if your supply is down specifically in the evenings, rest as much as you can during the day, make sure you are taking in enough calories for bfing and also fluids atleast 2L a day....and perhaps use the 2-3 oz at 8pm if she is not settling for you - it may just surprise you and give you a 4 hr sleep till midnight and then a great feed and another 4 hours till around 4am.

This is what I'd be aiming for at this age anyway!

HTH

Siobhain x

[Aunty Vi]

That's interesting about the low supply, but I doubt mine is as I actually had the opposite problem first time round (oversupply so DS was almost choking!).  Think we are going to try skipping the DF tonight first of all, and see what happens.  I am still wondering about growth spurts as well though, as she did seem particularly hungry this evening, she woke yelling for both cluster feeds and kept going back for a little bit more too!

[Aunty Vi]

Hm well we tried no DF last night, but it wasn't that great... fed her at 8 and then to bed, then she went till about 12.20 which was reasonably good (but only gave me just over 2 hours' sleep as I got to bed about 10).  After that though, she was back to every 2 hours or less! - 2.20 (which I just about managed to stretch for another 15 mins or so, but then it seemed she really was hungry), 4.40 and then up for the day at 6.45.  OK so that means she was only having the same number of feeds as if I gave a DF and then 2 night feeds, but with them all so close together I think it felt worse!
Also she seems to be getting worse at falling asleep during feeds and not having a proper feed - she had a good feed after 12, but was very sleepy at 2.20 (had to do her nappy midway through, and then still couldn't get her to take much more) and had another relatively small feed at 4.40.  I was trying everything to get her to have more, but she kept conking out only to wake and ask for (a bit) more as soon as I put her back to bed.... finally at 6.45 she woke and was quite alert but just didn't seem very interested in feeding, so has only had a tiny feed and will probably want the next one early!

I'm still not sure whether this is a growth spurt, or whether something else (like her cold) is making her wake and she is starting to demand feeding as a prop to get back to sleep, or what (I did try using dummy and white noise at first but it didn't seem to make any difference, also I was worried about her waking DS, so didn't dare try for too long)... It does seem odd she is going so much shorter intervals at night than during the day though!  And although I don't think she is confusing day and night in sleep terms (as she doesn't wake wanting to play or anything) I hope she isn't going to start replacing day milk with night milk...
I might try one more night with no DF to see if that changes the pattern, but if not then might go back to it so I at least get one slightly longer period of sleep in the night.  Unless anyone has any other ideas?

[shivi]

hmm...

not sure and not much time on my hands to think clearly....alone this week with the two kiddos and fulltime job!

Did you top up with EBM at 8pm?
Another thing -with the low supply, I had oversupply with both of mine early on to around 6-7 weeks, for all feeds, and this continued with Oscar for a lot longer (as I was rested etc) but with Emma around 6ish weeks, I really started to notice a dip in the evenings, it was harder and harder to get her to settle, so I would settle her for sleep around 7-8pm with a top up of EBM and then DF from the breast. Other than the 3 and 7pm feeds particularly I had oversupply issues and the issues returned for all feeds once I was better rested around 3 mths or so...leaking from the other side a lot, her spitting and choking, strong letdown etc....

Perhaps try the 8pm top off.....

Hugs on the lack of night time sleep and hoping you manage to get to bed earlier yourself tonight xxx

[Aunty Vi]

Well thanks for all the replies Shivi, especially when you are busy!  Actually I think we have found out what's going on now - I think it WAS a growth spurt, as yesterday she suddenly decided to feed all day as well!  She had about 2 or 3 extra day feeds and was taking more than usual at each feed too, so I gave her a DF as she seemed so hungry, but then she only fed twice in the night and with better gaps in between!  And today it seems like the growth spurt is over, as she has been back on a 3-hr EASY almost like clockwork.  She also woke once in the night in between the two feeds, but was able to go back to sleep on her own without me doing anything, which is also a good sign I guess as it means she wasn't dependent on feeding to settle.  So hopefully things are moving in the right direction! 
Thanks again for all the advice! & hope your week alone goes well.

[shivi]

great news!

Emma only GS-ed in the daytime, lucky me!

Hope you don't have another GS for a while and that things get back on an even keel xxx