Spirited 2.5 year old DD Won't Sleep

[WSMommy]

Hi all!  I am new to this site.  My daughter is 2.5, will be 3 in July.  She is VERY strong-willed, spirited, willful, whatever you want to call it.  I am at my wits end with sleep training.  Up until last summer, we co-slept.  I was fine with this but as she started getting bigger it just wasn't working out anymore.  We transitioned her to a BGB.  I had to lie with her to get her to fall asleep, and if she woke up in the middle of the night.  Needless to say I was spending half the night sleeping in her bed.  I became pregnant and got morning sickness really bad so I gave up.  We decided to bring her back into our room with a bed on the floor next to me.  We did this from December until 2 weeks ago until we finally decided to bite the bullet and get her back in her bed. 

I can't stand to hear her cry so we decided to use the gradual withdrawal method.  We started a bedtime routine that ends with her in bed by 8.  Getting her to fall asleep has been ok but she has been having multiple NW/EW.  Oh, and she's also decided that she doesn't want to nap anymore. It's been 2 weeks and I have stuck to the withdrawal method pretty well.  For the first time I've been consistent and stuck with the plan...but it's not working!  I've made it to the door, and she has now starting crying and getting out of bed at bedtime.  I just don't know what to do.  It's like she's become dependent on me being in the room with her now.  Like most of you, I'm deliriously exhausted.  I'm also anxious as to what will happen when the new baby comes.  I'd like to have this resolved by then.  If I don't start seeing some improvement soon, I'm afraid I'm going to give up which I know won't help in the long run.  Does anyone have any advice?? Please! 

Also, I've been keeping a sleep log if it would help anyone give advice.  Thanks so much.

[Mama2boys]

Hi
sorry you are having such a tough time, whats her schedule like, could you please write it out.

Thanks,
Mukta

[WSMommy]

During the day, if she does take a nap, it is usually for about an hour-1.5 and she is up by 3:30.  It varies because she is either with my mom or her dad while I work.  This is part of the frustration because I feel like I can't get her on a day time strict-routine.  At night, we begin bedtime routine (bath, books, bed) around 7 and she is normally asleep around 8.  It usually only takes her a couple minutes to fall asleep with me sitting in her room.  She sleeps for an initial 4-6 hours and then the NWs happen.  They continue until she wakes up by 7.   Do you want specific nights?

[Mama2boys]

Well, would be good to see what the pattern is like, because besides being used to you it could also be that she is going thorugh the tranisition ot no naps and that causing her NW.

How does she slepe on a day of no naps?
Maybe 3:30-8 is not a long enough stretch for her, with DS if he slept beyond 2:30 in the aftenroon the night was a mess!

[WSMommy]

Let me know if you need anything else.  Thanks much!

Here is a sample of our nights:

Thurs:
-wake @ 5:45a
-half hour nap @ 11:00a
-sleep @ 8:15p
-wake @ 1:40a
-sleep @ 2:40a
-wake @ 5:45a
-sleep @ 6:00a


Fri:
-wake @ 6:40a
-nap 12:45-1:45p
-sleep @ 7:45p
-wake @ 12:15a
-sleep @ 12:20a
-wake @ 12:30a
-sleep @ 1:15a
-wake @ 2:07a
-sleep @ 2:17a

Sat:
-wake @ 6:30a
-nap 1:37-3:15p
-sleep @ 8:30p
-wake @1:10a
-sleep @ 1:30a
-wake @ 5:25a (daylight savings so it's an hour ahead)
-sleep @ 5:50a
-wake @ 6:10a
-sleep @ 6:20a

Sun:
-wake @ 8:20a

[Mama2boys]

Hi,

I am no expert, but my guess is she is getting over tired as sometimes her day is about 14 hrs long.

She probably needs atleats 12 hrs of sleep in a day if not 13. So does she go down to sleep pretty quickly? how are the evenings? is she cranky?

I would try and out her in bed eralier or atleats coax her to ahve a longer nap.

I ahve struggled with sleep issues with my son and he has alwya sbeen a low end sleeper so max of 10/10.5 hrs in the night and i have needed to ensure a decent afternoon nap to keep him able and happy till bed time, so I moved bedtime back to get a decent wake-up time  if you see what I am saying.
i would also say be VERY consistent with your gradual weaning of yourslef, even if it menas going in and out of her room 100 time,s its a pain and she is older so it will be harder but dont give that up, you obviously have to work with more than one issue. Might also be she is so use dto you when she wakes up she cannot calm herself to sleep but needs you to do it.

What are her NW like?

hopefully one of the experts will come along soon.

[WSMommy]

For the majority of the nights, she has gone down very quickly- 10 minutes at most.  Her mood is generally good in the evenings, except on days when she is overly tired from not taking a nap.  She's never been a huge napper but now it's a struggle on most days.  And like I said in original post, I work full time so I can't set up a daytime routine and enforce it.

As far as the gradual weaning, since using GW, I have made it to the door but can't get out of her room.  Do I keep moving farther out or switch to WI/WO?  Sometimes her NW are her just coming into our room, other nights it's her crying and running into the room.  Either way, I walk her back in bed and lay her down and then sit wherever I've moved for the night.  Occasionally she goes down quickly, but it seems like she is up 10 minutes after I leave.  Otherwise, she lays in bed and keeps popping her head up to see that I am still there.

[Mama2boys]

so looks like its more of a you addiction, I would sit outside her room and shh or reasure her to stya in he rbed, I do that with DS nowadyads till he falls asleep and slowly plan to move to my room/downstairs once he is better with falling asleep on his own.

[WSMommy]

I agree that it is an attachment to me. How do I break it?? Lol. I forgot to mention in initial post that a week before we started GW, we got rid of her paci so that's been an adjustment as well. Should I see a sleep specialist? I'm on the verge if giving up . Sitting in her room for the second as I type this...

[Mama2boys]

dont give up for sure.

We also got rid of the paci around DS turning 2 nd took him a month to get over it, so fact is your LO is going through the wenaing of a lot of things all at once, paci, you etc etc so I would just give her time and stick to the plan.

[WSMommy]

I'm having a hard time with the nap issue since I'm not with her during the day.  Any other suggestions?  Is this a sleep or attachment to me issue?

[louis-mummy]

Hi there

i would make a guess that its more of an attachment to you, yes part of it will be routine but at 2.5yo (exact same age as my LO) i think that the nap time being a little out *shouldn't* be a deal breaker.  Having said that the am and pm A times need to be similar, a typical routine at this age would be (ish!)

7am wake
1-2pm nap (i actually cut DS's nap to 45 mins although he would like longer)
8pm asleep

multiple nw's (how long are they for?) might be making her OT, if you think that then i would use an earlier bedtime

have a look here for help with WI/WO v GW:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0

so she's not able to go to sleep without you there? what kind of interaction do you give her while she goes to sleep - verbal, touch?

i had the same thing with my LO for quite some time and it did take a while to fix - what did it was me not being there when he went to sleep, him not waking to check if he was still there and knowing that if he cried i would go and check on him but he wasn't coming out of the room and i wouldn't stay while he went back to sleep.  sounds horrible i think but it works and he's a MUCH better sleeper now

i know how exhausting it is but things can get better - keep posting 

[WSMommy]

Her night wakings usually last 10-20 minutes, but then it seems like she's up half hour-1 hour later.  This is what happened last night (no nap during the day)

-sleep @ 7:45p
-wake @ 9:55-10:05p
-wake @ 2:03-2:13a
-wake @ 2:20-3:10a
-wake @ 7:30

The NW from 2:20-3:10, she kept moving around in her bed and poking her head up to see if I was still there.  When I put her to bed, we read stories and then I hug and kiss her goodnight.  I then move to my spot by the door (that's as far as I can make it with GW) and wait.  During NW, I go to her and lay her down/cover her up and move to my spot.  Any verbal conversation is short "It's night night time" "Time for bed".  After that, I don't say anything.  I just don't know how to remove myself from the equation with her.  I really hope we figure out something soon because I'm getting terrible anxiety about night time with her.  Plus it's making me so irritable during the day that I find myself getting annoyed with her.

Also, should I switch to WI/WO?  It doesn't seem that I can get past the door and that my sitting in the room is becoming her prop now.  She has never slept independently which I why I started with GW. 

[WSMommy]

Going on an 1.5 hour NW. I'm losing my patience ladies! Help! Do I need to take her to doc? This is ridiculous.

[louis-mummy]

Sorry to hear things aren't getting any better yet (HUGS)

so she's getting minimal contact with you when going to sleep, you're in sight but that's all?

what was happening during that 1.5hr nw? could she be teething for it to be such a long one?

i'm afraid things probably aren't going to be very quick to fix (i speak from experience  ) since by this age they are more aware that the 'rules' are changing and they don't like it! things are likely to get worse at first as she's unsettled and probably building some OT too...

there are a few things which you could try, or at least think about, i'll throw them out there as ideas for now.  please write back if you want help progressing any of them.

role play: use doll/teddies during the daytime to explain how she needs to go to sleep in her bed while you are busy doing jobs/sleeping etc. at this age they are far more understanding.

sticker chart: if she responds well to this kind of thing then worth a try, lots of praise and/or treat reward

mummy unavailable: tell her you need to nip to the loo/shower or whatever and go out for a few seconds but then go back in. if she is ok with this then stretch out the time you're away for. if she's really unhappy then tread carefully - go out quickly and flush the loo but go straight back so as not to lose trust

step up GW: sit where you are but turn away so she can't see your face, move your 'spot' to half in/out the doorway, leave the chair....only you're not in it! etc

With my DS i needed to leave the room or he would wake all night long looking for me.  Yes it took a while for him to accept (and lots of tears) but once he did the nw's improved significantly.

I'm not sure how near you are to this stage but i thought this thread was really useful
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=146554.0

Honestly, its not quick or easy but SOOOOOO worth it when LO goes to sleep happily in their own bed and sttn

Keep strong!