Moving to 3.5h E.A.S.Y. Questions.

[mlly]

Hi my LO is 3.5 months and is now moving to 3.5 E.A.S.Y. The transition helped solve his multiple night waking after midnight. He is now in 3.20h procedure, which means his A time would be 1:45 and his S time would be 1:35.

However I found most of time he can only handle 1:20-1:30 A time. Sometimes he's fallen asleep after 1:10 A time in the morning and there's no way to wake him up. His E remains OK though and sometimes I think he can handle 3:5 hr.

And he has multiple NW before 10:00 pm. 1-3 times each hour and very difficult to settle. He just cried every time I tried to put him down. Pat is useless because he gets angry when I pat him. I guess he is really tired and need a lot comfort.

What should I do? Can I maintain the A time he can handle and extend his S time to 1:45? Following is his E.A.S.Y yesterday:

E 7:00 am
S 8:10-8:45,-10:00 (S is good when time is between 8:10-8:30, bad after 8:30)
E 10:20
S 11:30-40, - 12：15 （his second nap becomes very short since I started 3:20 E.A.S.Y.）
E 1: 40
S 2: 20-2:30, - 3:50
E: 5:00
S: 6:10-45

Thanks your advice in advance.

[kitcat]

Is the second nap 30 or 40 minutes, not sure if you are aware but 30 minutes usually means your little one was OT and 40 minutes UT. Also have you tried extending the second nap?

[mlly]

Yes but can only extend through holding and started to fuss once I put him down. After seveal time's put down he just became wide open and seemed not tired at all.

[kitcat]

Have you tried shh pat while he is in the crib. With mine, if I do that she may cry a little at first but usually calms down and falls asleep again. However, if I pick her up it's over and I can't put her down again even if she is drowsy or in a light sleep.

[*Liz*]

You need to follow your LO's sleepy cues really as the extended A time is giving you that short nap I think.

When you say the 3.5hrly EASY solved the NWs do you mean adjusting the feed schedule?

I'm a little confused, sorry  .

The NWings before midnight are certainly OT.

You can allow naps up to 2hrs in length if your LO will oblige  .

Personally it sounds as though transitioning at this stage is backfiring and causing OT - but if it is the feeds that is the issue we can try and be creative until the A naturally extends.

[mlly]

Thanks both of you.

I have tried patting instead of sh/pat because I found patting is working better. He would of course cried at the begining but most of time he just did not stop crying until I pick him up. Thus I had to use PU/PD days ago- to solve the problem of holding to sleep. He is much more eaiser to put down at day now but problem just happens at night.

And the NWs before is not about feeds I think. I could settle him without feeding.

These two days he suddenly could handle 1.30-2 hrs activity time. And this afternoon he fussed when A time is 1.20 thus I put him to sleep but he woke up in half an hour and seems sleepless. Just now I put him to sleep at 7:00pm and he woke up in 20 minutes, I put him down with patting for 3 times untile 8:00pm and he became exciting and laughing to me. Is it a sign of OT? Or a sign that he needs more A time?

LizJ said NW before midnight are certainly OT but he's NW always there no matter if his naps were good nor not at the day. And the only night without NW recently is the day I tried PU/PD for one hour in the afternoon. That night although he slept very unstable but did not wake up.

I had to use 3 hours every night from around 7:30pm standing by him and comfort him. I can see he wanted to sleep but couldn't go into deep sleep thus he woke up every 10-20 minutes and started to cry. I just don't know what happen.

[*Liz*]

I try very hard not to draw any conclusions from what happened one time as they often are not repeated. Sometimes a LO will sleep well at night from sheer exhaustion iyswim?

Those multiple NWs before midnight really do sound like OT or a prop issue or discomfort.

I had to use 3 hours every night from around 7:30pm standing by him and comfort him. I can see he wanted to sleep but couldn't go into deep sleep thus he woke up every 10-20 minutes and started to cry. I just don't know what happen.

It is this bit that sounds very OT like to me.

Perhaps you could post your routine again in EAS format so we can see what happened today or yesterday and see if we can help better  .

[mlly]

Thanks. Below is yesterday's rutine:

Wake up & E: 7:00
A: 7:15-8:32
S: 8:32-10:15
E: 10:23
A: 10: 30- 12:00
S:12:00-12:40 then wake up, hold to calm down, put down and pat several times, sleep again at 13:10-13:45
E: 13:50
A: 14:00-15:20
S:15:20-15:50 wake up, hold to calm down, seem sleepless, put down and pat many times until 17:15
E:17:15
A:17:25-19:05
S:19:05, wake up at 19:25, put down and pat several times to around 8:10, then very exciting and playing on bed until 20:55, hold to calm him down, sleep at 21:10
22:30 DF 20 minutes later than usual because I overslept, feed only one side and too sleepy to eat another
3:30 Feed- this is not usual and I guess due to the insufficient fee at 22:30, he usually wake up around 5 and feed
6:00 Feed again.
6:50 Wake up.

Last time things a little bit different:
1. He did woke up after he slept at 21:10 until 3:30 after around 1 more hour's A time, while for around 2 weeks he kept waking up until 10:00 and I felt he has no energy to wake up at all.
2. His feed is not usual. I think I have survived growth spurt just days ago. I will keep watching tonight to see if it still will happen.
 
You are talking about Pro issue and I have thought about this. He would cry if I do not calm him down through holding before I put him down. Maybe he's using my holding as a Pro and just kept waking up to ask for it. But is it possible for him to calm down on bed with just patting? He would get very angry for my patting him if he''s tired or being unable to sleep.

[*Liz*]

Looks like he is getting OT as the day wears on.

1st A was 1h 30 mins and that gave you a good nap.

Next A was 1h 45 and that gave you a broken nap that needed resettling. Next A was 1h 30, but after a broken nap.

Rest of the day seems very disjointed and OT like to me.

I would try and keep your second A (eyes open to syes closed again) to 1h 30 and see if that helps things along a little bit.

His nights are very short as well due to the wakeful evenings.

The easiest thing to try first is just cutting back that second A to see if we can get a solid nap into him. It is always easier to shorten an A time and check for OT first.

[mlly]

Ok I tried yesterday to shorten his sencond A to 1.5h and he slept 1h 25 mins, the first time since these days! Thanks god! However I could not put him bed earlier for the third nap and his A time was 1h 50 mins thus his third nap awful again.

Now I know that it's the OT issue but how do I maintain the E.A.S.Y? If I put him to bed earlier and earlier he would have to go to bed at night around 6-6:30pm, is it ok? Because I tried last night to put him to bed at 6:25pm and he slept until 7:00pm and woke up peacefully and then smiled to me, like he took it as a CN. He eventually went to bed at 8:15pm and had two short sleep until 9:10 then there was no way to put him down without crying. I had to put him down again and again until 10:10pm.  

[*Liz*]

Can you post that as a routine please? It is hard to understand in the text?

Looks like you need to stick to 1h 30 A for a little longer - but I do wonder if he is up to tricks a bit.

Post you routine and I'll have a think  .

[mlly]

Here is his the day before yesterday's routine:
Wake up:7:00
E:7:00
A: 7:20-8:32
S: 8:32-9:20 & 9:50-10:15 broke nap
E: 10:25
A:10:35-11:45
S:11:45-13:10
E: 13:40
A:13:50-15:00
S: 15:00-15:20, then lots of put down until  17:05
E: 17:15
A: 17:25-18:25
S:18:25-19:00 and woke up
E:19:00
A:19:00-20:15
S:20:15 again two 20 minutes nap and a lot of put down until 22:15
DF 22:15

And following is his yesterday's routine:
Wake up: 6:50
E: 7:00
A: 7:15-8:32
S: 8:32-9:20 & 9:30-10:00
E: 10:25
A:10:35-11:30
S:11:30-12:00 then a lot of put down until 13:00
E: 13:50 sleeping while eating
A: 14:10-15:10 (All A time was used for preparing his nap but he just kept his eyes wide open)
S: 15:10-16:15 woke up but slept again without my help from 16:30-16:45
E: 17:15
A: 17:25-18:30
S:18:30-19:00 and try to DF him but woke up
A: 19:10-20:00 again, lots of wakings and did not settle until 22:30

His day and night looks like a mess. And because his sleeping time was before schedule I had to interupt his sleeping at 19:00 to feed him, because he obviously would not take enough if I fed him at 18:30 just after 1 hour I fed him.

I thought about an amended 3.5h E.A.S.Y given that his A time is 1.5h and most of his good sleep is limited to 1.5hr also, and don't know whether it's workable, can you give your opinions? Thanks very much!
E:7:00
A:-8:30
S:8:30-10:00
E:10:30
A:-11:30
S:11:30-13:00
E:14:00
A:-14:30
S:14:30-4:00
E:5:30
CN:5:30-6:00
A:6:00-7:00
S:7:00

[*Liz*]

I thought about an amended 3.5h E.A.S.Y given that his A time is 1.5h and most of his good sleep is limited to 1.5hr also, and don't know whether it's workable, can you give your opinions? Thanks very much!

Sorry - I'm not sure what you mean really. If the A is 1.5hrs and the naps are 1.5hrs it really would be best to stick to a 3hrly EASY for a little longer.

Unless there is a major issue with 3hrly feed then there is no need to transition at all just yet as your LO's A times just don't support doing it yet. A lot of LOs don't start doing it until 4.5ish months or so.

Are you breast or bottle feeding?

[mlly]

I'm breast feeding. He can handle more than 3.5h about eating and he fussed really a lot when eating if he was not hungry enough. He usually would not continue to eat after first let down and finished in 5 mins for both side. I feed both side each time maybe I can feed only one side to make sure he would be hungry on 3hrs? But he wouldn't get enough then, right?

[*Liz*]

Fine - if your LO only wants to feed 3.5hrly it is best to follow it as cutting the feeds can lead to snacking.

This will mean you do end up doing a EASAEAS sometimes to make it fit in and work as if you cannot push the A time yet then you will not always have a perfect EASY.

Just avoid feeding to sleep and if your LO is looking dopey as it is near to nap time stop them sucking to sleep, and do a quick nappy change and windown so the E and S are still seperate.

It will only be a matter of a few weeks before the next A extension anyway when it will all even out a little again.

The 16 weeks GS is right around the corner as well  .