8mo ready for 9mo EASY?

[Brock~Tahlia~Mummy]

Hi guys, my BIG 8mo is knocking back milk feeds...He loves solids, drinks water well and sleeps generally well. Can you take a look at my EASY to see if any tweaking could encourage milk feeds?
Also he has always been a BIG baby and never really introduced DF. He is usually 1month ahead of his age - feeding and physical development wise.

E 7am Bottle 180-210mils
E 7.30am Solids with left over milk if no milk I make 40mils up and add, cereal, mashed fruit, just started nibbling toast.
A 8am - 9.30am (water 40mils or so)
S 10am
Y

A 11.30am (cot play)
E 11.45am Bottle 180-210mils
E 12.30 Solids Mash Sweet veggies and chicken mixed with left over milk, if no milk I make 40mils up and add, plus teething rusk
A 1pm-2pm (water 40mils or so)
S 2.15pm-3.45/4/4.15pm * if he wakes at 3.45 he has cot play for 15 mins

E 4.15pm Bottle 180-210mils
E 5pm Solids Mash Veggies and grated cheese mixed with left over milk, if no milk I make 40mils up and add, plus teething rusk
A 5.30pm - 6.30pm, 6.45/7pm bath
E Bottle 80mils - 240mils
S 7.15/7.30pm


So my problem is that he is knocking back the milk feeds, I have reduced his solids and this hasn't helped. I have delayed bottles up to 45mins which he will drink, but then throws the rest of the day out (eating wise). Also If he decides to eventually drink he is then too full to eat as much of his solid meals - which has a knock on affect for the rest of the day...
The above EASY worked perfectly till he cut his first tooth. i was fine with him knocking back his milk at first and didn't push the issue for 1 week, then I persisted for 15mins the second week, sometimes he would eventually drink, sometimes no. By week 3 I became concerned and took him to the GP, he had an ear infection and was cutting his first 2teeth.
Now it's 6 weeks later and I'm still struggling to get him to have his daily milk requirements.
I've tried all the suggested ideas relating to bottle feeding and nothing has worked, distraction worked for 2 days, now I'm at a loss!
Is he too big for 4 milk feeds, he's nearly 11kg's. Should I be going for 3? Like a 9mo?
any ideas at all would be very very much appreciated.

[Jiinx]

Hi there, I'm going to move this topic to bottle feeding...it -does- sound like he's reducing his milk already and that can happen earlier than some..

[Lolly]

At his age 20oz a day is the minimum they need and this includes the milk in their food. Even on the minimum bottles you have listed he is getting enough milk.

I don't think there would be a problem with dropping to 3 bottles, especially as he is eating well, you may find he does drink his milk better on 3 bottles. My milk refusing DD has been on 3 bottles since 7/8 months.  There are some examples of routines here http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164253.0

Laura

[Brock~Tahlia~Mummy]

Ohhh great thanks Laura!

So If I'm correct in saying BW and many baby books/baby websites are saying 500mils is OK as a minimum? Enough to keep them developing and growing well?

DS had 2 x 210mils plus 1 x160mils today plus 60/80mils added to solids = 640/660mils TODAY. GREAT news for us! :-)
I wish every day was like today...
I was so concerned because I'm being told left right and centre milk is the most important source until they are 12months, plus the formula chart recommends 4 x 240mils perday plus 2-3 solid meals.
He was just such a great eater before the teeth came in, he drank every drop and finished all solids plus water.

The above EASY in my first message was in place before the milk bottle battle started(5-6weeks ago).
Now a days he can have have zero milk - only what was added to his solids, some days a full day of milk (exactly like the above EASY) and some days half the amount.
It's just so up and down.
He went on a total Milk strike yesterday and fed well today?
I'm thinking of dropping the 4-4.30pm bottle as it's close to dinner time and is the most hardest to get into him.

How many days should I let the milk strike go on before I take him to the Dr? I was thinking as long as he eats solids and water - not let it go on for more than 2 consecutive days?
What do you think?

[Lolly]

To be honest your Dr may well not be bothered about a 2 day milk strike providing they are eating and drinking. My pead wants us to drop to 2 bottles a day (which I have no intention of doing yet ) and really isn't concerned about the amount of milk she has as long as she gets some milk and is eating. If you are not comfortable with the situation then obviously get him checked out but they may not be able to offer any additional help.

On the milk intake - 500mls/20oz seems to be what they "need" and anything else is a bonus. DD has good and bad days too, her reflux is a bit better at the moment and the teats she is on suit her better but still yesterday she point blank refused her afternoon bottle and her tea. She woke up starving at 3am but that's another issue .

Laura

[Brock~Tahlia~Mummy]

Thanks again Laura, this may sound like a stupid question but I have wondered what is the exact measurement of milk actually is...
e.g directions on formula say 180mils water add 3 scoops wich brings it up to 200/210mils in the bottle.
So is he getting 180mils of milk? Or 200/210 mils of milk? I never worried about this before, but now I'm counting mils I would really like to know what he's getting ykwim?

[Lolly]

I was always told to count it as the volume of water you put in. The powder increases the overall volume but there is 180ml of water and the amount of calories and nutrients that go with 180ml of formula. Confusing I know - but when they leave some I always took that away from the amount of water - so say 30ml from the 180ml so they would have drunk around 150ml. The difference in what you make and what there is in the bottle isn't such a huge difference that you need to consider it really.

HTH!

Laura

[Brock~Tahlia~Mummy]

Of Course! I was thinking that after I posted my previous question... Thanks again Laura I really really appreciate your advice.
I'm considering reducing solids for 1 week to see if this may help. I have reduced solids before, but only for one day or one meal...WDYT?
He only had 1 x 180 mils and 1 x 100mils plus 80mils all up in his solids yesterday. That's only 360mils. I'm not sure if my concerns are just the inexperience of a first time mum, or the fact that he's what DH and I believe is our blessing, our miracle baby, I'm always worried about him, so is DH - although Dh tries his hardest not to show it! May be both!

Thanks again.

[Lolly]

Why don't you keep things as they are for the next week and look at what he is taking over a week before you change anything. He had over 600mls the other day and ok, less than is ideal today but I wonder if you average over 1 week you would find he actually does take the 500ml per day? I know my DD is really variable - she has had 21oz liquid milk today but on Friday she only took about 12oz of liquid milk. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to how she eats either, this morning at 6am after sleeping through from 7pm she only took 5oz when she would normally drain 8oz. She took a little bit of breakfast, way less lunch than is usual but drained her 8oz pm and bedtime bottle and had a good tea (usually refuses tea unless it's banana ). Don't forget yoghurts and cheese also count to the 20oz so you can increase the amount of dairy in his solids too.

I know it's hard not to worry but if he is having the apropriate no of wet and dirty nappies, alert and active, meeting milestones and gaining weight then he is taking enough for his needs. His reflux is bound to play a part in his appetite too  - even if it's not every day.

As for worrying it starts when your pregnant and doesn't seem to stop - ever! The joys of being a parent!

Laura

[muddyfeet]

I've got an 8 mo LO who was doing the same as yours, refusing or not eating whole bottles. We were at 4 bottle feeds, went to 3, and she'll take from 630 mils to 720 mils daily, plus solids. What I did though (and this may be too much of a pain for others) is monitor by calories. My milk solution says it contains 100 calories per 150 mils mixed up. I looked up the food values for the solids she eats, and I just mark down what she's had for the day. As long as she's totaled 800 - 850 calories for the day by bedtime, then she's gotten what she needs, whether it's solid or liquid. The reason I did this was frustration at too many different people telling me how much milk she should get, and each "authority" had a different answer. They ranged from 20 ounces to 40 ounces a day. If I tried to get 40 ounces into DD she'd float away!! Anyway, it's a different possible approach. 

[Brock~Tahlia~Mummy]

Laura, yes I see how your LO is up and down like mine... OK I will keep going for the next week and see how we go!

muddyfeet, that sounds like a great idea, although my problem is DS has home made baby food, so I would have no idea what the calories would be??
e.g he eats my porridge and banana for Breakfast and home made chicken and sweet veg for lunch and jar pumpkin and grated cheese for dinner...Hmmm
Will attempt to try and count calories...
Thanks, great idea!

[muddyfeet]

There are a bunch of free calorie counters online, which is where I put my LOs homemade food to find the counts. Google has a nice one.

[Brock~Tahlia~Mummy]

Thanks again muddyfeet, by the way your LO is really cute!

[muddyfeet]

Thanks, Brocks Mummy! She does look better without the cereal coating.

I was thinking when I saw your pic what a sweet smile your LO has! Good luck with the feeding and the longer EASY.

[Brock~Tahlia~Mummy]

I'm thinking of a new approach...WDYT?
He feeds better first bottle and last bottle. It's such a battle with the other 2 bottles.
I think my persistence is making him hate it more.
I'm able to add (in total) 260mils to his solids.
So if he has 1 x 210ml bottle feed and 1 x 180ml bottle feed plus the 260ml added to his solids each day that's=650ml plus solids! Great!!!