what happening? suddenly waking at 10pm and 2am?

[Chicane]

Hi there - we have recently weaned from feed to sleep. We've been tweaking A times to get nap times right and making some progress there. But last three nights he's been waking crying at 10pm and then waking for a feed at 2am (the 2am feed is normal - we're going to work on that once we get day naps right) But whats this 10pm thing? I've tried settling with no feed and settling with a feed...not sure what to do about them or why they are happening ...also he has gone from having both breasts to occasionally having one but then wanting the other one later in his A time...very frustrating...could it be the solids he has at5pm? Your thoughts/advice on this would be great...here was yesterday

Awake 6.30am
Feed 7am
A
S 9am - 1.45min (a record!!)
Awake 10.45am
Feed and solids 11am
A
S 2pm (took a while to settle but no major crying just gurgles in cot)
Awake 2.45pm (only 45 min nap)
Feed
A
Solids 5pm
Bath feed 5.30
Asleep 6pm
10pm wake up - fed him this time
2am wake up tried to settle without feed but after an hour fed him
Awake 6.30am

I should have settled at 10pm and fed at 2am...but why this sudden waking at 10pm? Its very unusual for him...

[Chicane]

sorry he is 6 months old

[*Jo*]

Hi CHicane, im just gonna pop this over to NW's board for you

[Tweakster]

HI there, it's a common growth spurt age, do you think he's hungry at 10?

[Chicane]

Hi Wendy - well its hard to say - the times I have offered him the breast at that time he has taken it and eaten well, but the times I have settled him back without offering the breast he settles fairly quickly. What do you think? I don't want to offer the breast and reinforce the pattern of waking at that time. I was just about to start trying the dream feed to see if that would get him to STTN but he keeps waking at 10pm! Do you think I should offer the breast at 10pm and just see what happens over the next week or settle him without breast and see if it stops?

Also - what are your general thoughts on our routine...I am thinking I might be able to get longer naps by extending his A time to almost 3 hours - i know he is young for that kind of A time but I think he doesn't get tired enough - not showing signs - after 2.5 hours...today his first morning nap was only 1 hour....I am also wondering if he is low sleep need baby...as day naps have always been a problem from the minute I brought him home...although have improved dramatically...thoughts?

thanks!

[Tweakster]

Hi there, if he settles does he stay asleep for long or does he re-wake soon after?  To be honest in the first 6 mths up to the 6 mth growth spurt I always check the hunger situation really because they just really do go through so many GS in that time.  I think I would offer it for the next little while, few days to see if it just settles itself.  If it becomes a habit then it is likely a routine issue.

I agree I would bump up that first A time with a 1 hour nap, it does sound a bit UT.  But be careful sometimes with these guys (like my DS) when you bump up one A time the next A time can reduce slightly while they get caught up so to speak.  When I pushed out Finn's morning his middle A shrank a bit until he was used to the longer A time and had a decent nap.  Could you try 2.75 first, 3 hours seems a big jump at 6 mths really.  The second nap in your routine above also strikes me as a bit UT.

[Chicane]

thanks Wendy - I am going to start experimenting today with adjusting the A time...will keep you posted on our success (or not!) thanks again

[Chicane]

Hi Wendy - when I settle him the first NW he wakes again at the time he normally would to feed...usually between 6 and 8 hours after going to sleep. I am going to feed him both times tonight and see what happens. Now a question on our day naps...have nailed the morning nap - worked out he needs almost 3 hours of A time to get a good 1hr 45 min nap. Excellent for him! So with the second nap today I gave him another 3 hour A time, he went down with no resistance but woke up LAUGHING and SMILING after 30 min nap which usually would indicate a UT nap no? So do you think it could be possible that at 6 months he could have a A time of over 3 hours for his second nap? Its just seems way too young to be awake for that length of time but maybe he is low sleep needs???

[Chicane]

By the way I've given up trying for the CN - too hard and someone (was it you?) suggested that the times I did get him down for the catnap and woke him from it that it may have been just the beginning of his big sleep...ie he thought the CN was bed time which would explain why he would wake from it (or be woken from it) grumpy...?

[Tweakster]

HI there, we had to fight way too hard for a CN so we gave it up early in favour of earlier bedtimes.  Hard to say if that is what reinforced our EW or not. 

But if your LO is low sleep needs and high A times then the CN will probably be too much sleep.  A 1 hr 45 min nap is a good one so yes it is possible that he needs a tad more A time after it to get a decent nap.  The other option is to cap his nap at 1.5 hrs and see what that yields.