New mum starting 5wo on EASY - help needed please :)

[ClaireDB]

Not sure if i am posting this in the right area?

Have a 5 week old boy who i have been using the E.A.S.Y with for 2 days. He is bottle fed formula and so far i have found that he struggles to always go 3hrs between feeds, he can be hungry anywhere from 2-3hrs after his last feed. Also today he only managed to nap for 45 minutes at a time leaving a very tired little boy (and mum) by this evening (when he wakes i dont rush straight in to him i only go in when he is genuinely upset not just fussing and then try to resettle him but had no joy he was too hungry, yesterday he resettled himself on his morning sleep and i didnt go in at all and he slept for 2hrs). We have introduced a dream feed at 10.30pm which he takes between 90ml and 120ml and wakes around 2-2.30am for another feed which he has between 90-120ml but often takes a while to resettle when going back to sleep (think i maybe putting him down too quickly after his feed and burp?). He then wakes again about 5 - 6 for another feed.

Just wondering if this is normal when starting on E.A.S.Y and if anyone has any suggestions on how i could further improve what i'm already doing? I definitely agree with using a routine and like that easy means that i dont have to clock watch though i get confused when he shows cues earlier than it seems he should. e.g he is ravenous 2 hrs after his last feed, i worry that i am miss reading his cues but then when i give him his feed he has 90mls or more so he obviously was hungry?? Or he shows a variety of cues in a short space of time e.g today he woke up from a nap (45mins) and while trying to resettle him he burped, showed signs of hunger by making a hungry cry and putting his hands to his mouth before yawning and then showing more signs of hunger?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated please 

 

[Lolly]

Hello and welcome!

You actually sound like you are doing really well! Your DS is very small and not all babies fit into a routine quickly or easily. Your nights sound good, one wake after a DF at 5 weeks is fab!

At the moment I would concentrate on getting the first EASY cycle "right" and see how the day pans out from there. So, once he wakes feed him and get him back to sleep so he is awake for 1 hour maybe 1 hour 15 from eyes open to eyes closed. You are doing the right thing by reading his cues and feeding when he is hungry even if it is a bit early - I know that throws things out but try to keep the pattern of EAS and not feed to sleep and it should begin to develop. There is also a growth spurt at around 6 weeks so he may be extra hungry anyway.

What do you think? Come back with any more questions!

Laura

[ClaireDB]

Thank you so much your advice is very much appreciated 

Today was better than yesterday, he still only slept for 45mins for his morning sleep but managed nearly 3 hrs in the afternoon (we woke him just before 3 hrs, i seem to remember in the book Tracy said to do this so that they can still sleep in the evening??), feeding wise he went 3 hrs between feeds except once that was 2 and 1/2.

He had his dream feed at 11 last night and woke again at 3.30am which is positive, fingers crossed it wasn't just a fluke.

Dh worked from home today too which was great as was able to share the day, so a much more relaxed day all round.

Thank you again for getting back to me 

[Lolly]

That sounds good! 45 mins can be a bit undertired - how long was his first A time?

Laura

[ClaireDB]

His first activity time of the day yesterday was 60 mins with dh, he thinks but is not 100% sure.

Last night dd woke hungry about 10mins before his dream feed at 10.30 (couldnt get him to burp, tried for at least 15mins, was fast asleep and didn't stir)after his feed he slept till 3.30 when he fed again. As usual he was a little unsettled after this feed and appeared to have a tummy ache but then settled and woke again at 6.30.

Since then though it has been all over the place and we are all completely shattered!

He would only take 60mls at 6.30 (usually takes between 80 and 120mls at a feed), didnt burp and was awake for about 15 mins after the feed (1hr15mins since awaking) but was very sleepy and went off to sleep for about 45mins, he woke and had some hungry signs but seemed content if we talked, played or hugged him so we managed to extend him till 9.30am to feed.

At 9.30 he had a full 120mls and then went back to sleep at 10.15 for 15mins he woke crying and we were unable to resettle him, was crying lots we think he may have had a tummy ache, then he ate again at 12 (80mls) and was very unsettled until 1.45 when he was so tired from crying he fell asleep. He woke again at 3.30 and had a full (120mls) and then went straight back to sleep after his nappy change and is asleep now.

He seems to be going ok through the night and then has trouble sleeping till the afternoon and then is exhausted and all he wants to do is sleep all evening, am worried that if he sleeps too long in the evening it will affect how he sleeps at night?

So basically all in all we are very confused 

Claire

[ClaireDB]

oops typo meant ds not dd 

[Lolly]

Ok - I'm a bit confused but that's not unusual . Can you write his day out in terms of

E - what time how much
A -  how long
S - what time how long for

I can't work out what happened where! You say he woke at 6.30, took 60ml then was asleep 15 mins after that feed - which was 1 hr 15 after wake up so does that mean he woke at 5.30? What time did he wake up from the nap? If he has a short nap you need to make the next A a bit shorter to avoid getting over tired.

Laura

[ClaireDB]

Sorry i can def see how what i wrote could be very confusing, i def get confused even though we are trying to write all the times down So here goes:

E - 6.30 ate 60 ml would take anymore very sleepy (was awake at start)
A - roughly 7.20 nappy change and small play then sleepy
S- 7.20-7.30, woke roughly at 8.15/8.20 was unsettled but was able to talk, play cuddle to soothe him

E - 9.40 120mls
A - 10.05am nappy change only was too sleepy but not completely asleep
S- 10.15 for 15mins

E- 12pm (80mls)
A-12.30 very unsettled
S- 1.45

E- 3.30pm 100ml
A- nappy change only
S- 4pm

E- 6.30pm ate 60 mls, very sleepy
A- 7pm bath and the had final 60mls at 7.15 very sleepy after last 60mls
S- 7.30 still asleep now at 9pm

Hope this is clearer, sorry should have done it like this in the first place.

Have seen on some places in the forum about the flow on the teats, have just moved to number 2 (for 1month on) a week ago and he does still dribble some out the side of his mouth, not always but mostly, having said that is often less sleepy than he was at feeding on the 1 teats.

Thank you again for getting back to me

[Lolly]

Faster flow teats can help them feed better, he should stop dribbling when he gets more used to it.

You first A time was about 1 hour, which was probably why you got a 45 min nap. If he woke at 8.15 ish then you really would have been better to have got him back to sleep by 9.30 at the latest. This would have clashed with E time but I think I would have fed about 9.15 to try to get the S time, by 10.15 he had had 2 hours A time which is way too long - which is probably why he only slept for 15 mins (A time is eyes open to eyes shut and includes feeds, nappy changing etc, think of it as awake time rather than activity time.). Have you tried swaddling and using pat/sh to re-settle to get a proper nap? http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0 this link would be useful for you!

There is a link somewhere for an EASY log to help you trach your days. I can't find it just now but will post it when I find it. I will also move your post to the EASY board where you will get more eyes! I think your feeding is pretty ok really, feeds can still be variable at this age and if they are OT then they will take less so if you can get the EASY structure right then hopefully he will sleep better and then feed better.

Laura

[ClaireDB]

Thank you for having a look at our day, and for your advice, that def makes sense to me, think we may have got too stuck on making sure its 3hrs between feeds rather than doing whats right for him at the time.

The easy log sounds great, i look forward to taking a look at it

Again tonight he woke before his dream feed but had a full feed which is good. However the last few nights he has gone through till 3.30am after his feed (last night he woke up before it but still went till 3.30) but tonight he is up for a feed at 1.30 (his last feed was at 10, last night it was 10.30)?? Any ideas why this may have happened? Could this be due to the growth spurt you referred to earlier??

Started using the sh pat today, and it worked getting him too sleep (only used it once as other times he was too tired and went off himself), we also referred back to the book and feel we haven't really been doing a wind down time so have discussed a routine that we can use for this tomorrow so hopefully that should help. Will def take a look at the link you have suggested, ah what would we do without this site!! We don't really have any close friends with chn for advice so this site has been like a gold mine for us

Thank you SO much for your support, we really appreciate it.

[Lolly]

With the nightfeed it's a bit difficult to say really. My two never had a set wake after the DF - it varied every night. It could be he woke for some other reason and decided he was hungry or it could be the start of a growth spurt.

Here is the link to the EASY logs. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=89943.0 I kept it going for a few weeks when we started just to see what was going on. Sleep deprivation does nothing for my memory .

Let us know how tonight/ today goes.

Laura

[ClaireDB]

Today has def been a much better day thank goodness, but still def has some kinks to be ironed out

Any advice on improvements would be great!

Will start from the df last night

DF 10.00pm asleep at 11

Night feed 1.30am asleep at 2.10am

Night feed 4.45am asleep about 5.15am

E &A - 7.30am
S - 8.30am for 45 mins, tried to resettle using sh pat did by 10.05 - just as we were heating a bottle to offer as it had 
      been 45 mins of resettling woke on his own at 10.30

E & A - 10.30am
S - 11.30am used sh pat, asleep at 11.50, awake at 12.50, tried to resettle, no luck showing signs of 
      hunger

E &A - 1.10pm
S-  2pm, went to the shops, slept on and off, when we got home nappy change and then tried to resettle
     using sh pat didnt resettle.

E&A - 3.45pm
S - 4.30pm settled using sh pat asleep at 4.50, still asleep now at 5.25pm

Overall today he seems a lot more calm and content has def been crying less from distress than yesterday.

Also he used to only have a dirty nappy once a day (is always wet though) but yesterday he had a dirty nappy morning and night and today he has had a dirty nappy a further 3 times. His motion is not green at all anymore and is much more loose (sorry for descriptions), is more like it was when he was breast fed. It is 3 weeks since he started being on full formula. He doesn't seem to be in any pain and I wasn't too worried about it but this afternoon i have been feeling poorly with gastro Hopefully this isnt connected to the change in his activity??

Going to try giving him his bath at 6.30 and then feed him at 7, only thing is that will put df at 10, the last 2 nights he has woken just before his df, (last night he woke in the night twice for a feed, the night before that only once). Have read they recommend a cluster feed but suggest weaning them off at 8 weeks if i remember correctly (he will be 6 weeks on tues) do you think we need to introduce this and if so exactly what does a cluster feed involve have reread books but still dont really understand (e.g is it a full feed at 7 and 9?). Or would you recommend maybe we try doing the df about 9.50 to catch him before he wakes, if he hasn't woken yet??

Thank you again for advice




   

[*Liz*]

Hi 

How are you getting your LO to sleep for naps? Sounds like you are in the process of sleep training and shh/ptt ATM.

Do you have any idea what is waking your LO at 45 mins? Sometimes it is worth creeping back in the room 5 mins before they wake and starting sh/ptt again to teach them how to sleep beyond 45 mins.

45-60 mins A is about right at this age - but that means to get them asleep by that time.

The cluster feeding thing is confusing but TBH it is recommended to stop at 6 weeks anyway so I would perhaps try the 7pm feed plus a DF.

[ClaireDB]

Hey LizJ,

We are trying the sh pat sleep training for naps and having some success, but other times not , often during feeds he will have yawned 3 times already, am i right in thinking that these are yawns as he has just woken or am i missing his tired cues? If so i assume i keep feeding and then start the wind down as soon as he is done (after changing his nappy)?

Not sure what is waking him, though have a feeling loud noises in the neighborhood may disturb him as he is transitioning?? Def think it is a good idea to go in and sh pat him through that transition will def give that a try.

Last night we ended up letting him sleep before waking him for his bath, we waited till just before 3hrs so woke him at 7.45 then the evening looked like this:

E 8.10pm
S 8.40pm

DF 10.30pm

Night feed 1.30am cat napped till 3.40am and had another feed
S 4.20am

E and A - 6.30am (was unsettled during feed due to tummy ache so took a while)
S 8am

E and A - 9.45am
S put him down at 10.50 using she pat, was almost asleep at 11.30 but then got hiccups, when i picked him up turns out he was wet through, has just gone off to sleep now at 12.20 (wasnt showing any signs of hunger so didnt offer him a feed yet).

Am wondering if he was so awake between 1.30am and 3.40am because we let him have a longer sleep in the early evening?

We did try the next teats up as well but they are just too fast for him milk was flying everywhere and poor little thing was coughing and spluttering. Think we will stick to the ones we have been using for now

Thank you for getting back to me on the cluster feed too, am wondering if it is the 6-8 week growth spurt that means he is eating 3 hrs after his df again or maybe the 2 nights he slept through till 3.30 were a fluke!

I know all chn are different and therefore this may be hard to answer but roughly how long do most chn usually take to be sleep trained using the sh pat?

Any advice you have on any improvements we could make are much appreciated??

[*Liz*]

It is very variable how long it takes for a LO to respond to shh/ptt. I would perhaps post on the general sleep board to ask this one as I will admit my DS didn't respond to it (he was a refluxer and the patting used to make him throw up - he responded very well to the shhhhhh).

I think odd random NWings are part and parcel of the age really  and it can be very hard to know the cause. My 19 mth old still confuses me from time to time.

Let us know how you get on