6.5 month old, at least 3 NW per night...

[sparrow]

Hi, just hoping I can get some advice about what might be causing my daughter's night wakings. She's about 6.5 months old and we started PU/PD a month ago to wean her off both BF-ing to sleep as well as co-sleeping.  She now falls asleep without any PU/PD, usually in less than 5 minutes if we get the A time right.  

2 issues:  

-At night she usually wakes up anywhere from 30 to 90 minutes after she falls asleep.  Sometimes she'll cry a bit then settle, but often she gets extremely upset.  I know she's not hungry, but I also know that if I go in she just gets even more upset.  I do go in if her cries really escalate.  Nursing her works magic but I try not to do that because I know she's not hungry and we worked so hard to get her away from using the boob as a prop.

-After that she has 2 feedings a night, I really try to keep it at that, no more.   As for the feeding NWings they're usually somewhere between 10:30 and 12, and 3-6.  She usually settles easily after feeding.  I never did a dreamfeed, so I guess I could consider the first one a DF?

Our routine is something like...

Awake between 6-7
Morning A time 3h15
Morning nap 1.5
Afternoon A time 3h15
Nap 1.5
Evening A time 3h15
Bed between 6-8

We've just bumped her A time up because we were getting short naps, so the day is getting a bit long, still figuring out how to squeeze in all the naps and A time but keep bedtime at a reasonable hour!

She's breast feeds about every 4 hours plus one before bed. She has 3 meal times where she'll eat varying amounts as she's new to solids (pretty good eater so far though). She eats a lot of solids at dinner usually.

So that's the scoop... sorry if I was longwinded.  Thanks for any help!

[Tweakster]

HI there, you list bedtime as between 6-8 but that's a big gap...when is she normally asleep for the night?  I think at her age those long A times could be catching up and causing OT to build through the day.  Normally daytime OT shows up just after bedtime - an hour or so after they go to sleep.  A time tends to fluctuate throughout the day for most LO's so they aren't necessarily on the same A time all day.  It could be that she needs a longer morning A but then a shorter A to bed.  Something along those lines.

Also, could any solids be affecting her tummy, what is she getting for dinner most nights?  If she's eating a lot right before bed it may be too much for her tum.

Is she teething?

[sparrow]

Thanks so much, can't tell you how much I appreciate some feedback.  The last 2 nights have been much worse, with her not settling after her 2nd feed.  After I feed her there's a half hour of babbling and squirming, then cries escalate, then really upset.  Did Pu/Pd for a long time (asleep for a couple minutes then crying, etc.), the whole episodes were both 2 hours long.   She also had a big cry an hour after falling asleep at bed time.

Sorry the bedtime gap I gave is so vague!  I think it's because we're new to the long A times and consistent naps, everything was so inconsistent before!  But the gap is actually more like 6:45-7:45, depending on when she wakes up in the morning (anywhere from 6-7 am).  I hadn't thought of varying the A times through the day, simple as it sounds!  It's possible her last A time could need to be shortened.  If I do shorter A times before naps I get short naps - isn't that a good sign that I've got the A time right or am I wrong on that one?  Could she be OT even though she's having good naps?  I didn't know daytime OT showed up just after bed.

Most nights she's eating rice cereal and pureed carrot or some other veg.  She does eat quite a lot and then has a BF, so maybe I should ease up on the last meal. It's possible her tum is hurting, I just don't know!  She has 2 teeth that are about half way up.  I don't know how to tell if they hurt -- during the day they don't bother her.  The only sign I've heard about is ear tugging and there's none of that.  My gut tells me it's not an issue of discomfort but I could be wrong of course.

Anyway thanks again Wendy.  From a fellow Ontarian!

[sparrow]

I think you may be right with regards to the 1st waking being related to OT.  I looked back on some notes and I think the days she wakes up after an hour and gets upset are when her last A time was really long.  I'm going to experiment with this... thanks!

[Tweakster]

Hi there yes they can still get OT even while having good naps, 1) if their cumulative A time is too high and day too long and 2) if their final A to bedtime is too long. 

Of course there can be many other reasons for NW - teeth, illness, SA (but not likely at her age), too hot, too cold, hunger, wet, poopy, tummy troubles...or just plain random babies-being-babies stuff :-)

If you are getting good naps then it could just be the final A time that needs to be a bit shorter.  You will have to experiment as you say. 

3 hr 15 is not unheard of for her age, it's just on the higher side and she may need to catch up.  When we adjusted Finn's A time we often found that if we upped the first A time, the second one dropped for a bit, then when the second A time caught up, the final A was shorter.  It's like they use up most of their stamina in the earlier part of the day.

Teeth often do not bother LO's during the day, they are distracted, mummy is there, etc.  But when they are alone at night it can manifest - discomfort = NW.

Keep me posted.

[sparrow]

Thanks again Wendy.  Tonight she woke up after 35 mins, crying really hard.  Had a hard time getting her back down, took 40 minutes, lots of crying.  I'm thinking OT because she didn't have great naps today.

Yesterday was as good as it gets around here -- two 1.5 hr naps, bed at 7:15 and then 2 simple NW with BF and then back to sleep (no NW till midnight!). She woke up at 6:15.  So I tried to stick with what we did yesterday, today.  A times at 3h10 and 3h20 but today the same routine resulted in short naps (1h, 1h15).  So I decreased the final A to 3h which put her to bed at 6 ... and got the 35 minute NW.  

Your advice is really interesting and helpful, how the 2nd A time has to catch up.  You moderators are like scientists! I'm amazed at the knowledge and advice you all give.

Yesterday was so great, today was discouraging and I'm worried tonight will be tough.  But we're learning...

[Tweakster]

Hi there, well we're not scientists just mummies who have been there and done that and I speak from personal experience with Finn.  And also from reading a lot on here.  Everyone on here has different types of LO's and so you get a broad perspective...and also learn quickly that each LO is an individual too :-)  What works for some might work for others and also vice versa. 

Hang in there!