EW due to OT or UT? 7 mo....

[kikoz]

HAPPY BDAY EM!!!
Wishing u all the best it looks like ur lo is teething or smthg... Hope u had a gd nite x

[Jiinx]

Happy birthday hun..May this first birthday you share with your son be as special as you are

How's he feeling today? How was last night?

[empowered mama]

ahh, so wonderful to receive such warm wishes   thank you friends...I am feeling very loved today.

Last night we had another handful of NWs which I fully anticipated.  Got through it, and was up at 6:45.  I decided to put DS down for nap #1 at 3h15 A (about 10 min shy of typical A time) because he just didn't seem all that fussy/tired.  It yielded a 1h10 min nap which usually means UT here. 

When cutting As due to illness, teething, etc. is it assumed that it will be a shorter nap?  Or is it just a free-for-all and you hope that a long nap ensues?  It's so hard to read my LO, as his cues come and go all day long ykwim?

Overall he is in good spirits and it is a much better day than I expected 

[Jiinx]

it all depends on your lo, really When she was sick, I -tried- to keep the same As but she wanted less..she was just out of sorts when it came to approaching 3 hours..so I kept it at 3 hours instead of 3 and half or whatever.

He seems to be doing well with the As...

What does he do at these NWs? Crying? How do you get him back down?

[empowered mama]

most often he wakes crying - especially NWs early in the night.  Usually the only times he wakes happy/babbling is after 12 hrs sleep.

I've felt a little torn how to respond to his cries at these wakings.  If it escalates, I go in (and often he rolls over and needs help).  TBH I feel that my presence has always been a distraction for him so I never really know if I should stay or leave, and if I stay I'm not sure how to let him know I'm there.  Patting, talking, shushing all seems stimulating and distracting.  Rarely will I do PU/PD because he get so upset when I put him back down.  So it feels a little overwhelming in these moments, as I'm not sure what is the best thing to do.  Any thoughts?

I was wondering earlier - do you think there is a possibility that too short of a last A could cause an EW?  I feel that the last A could be where I need to toy around since we get good naps off of the first 2 A times yk?

[Jiinx]

At your lo's age, my lo did frequent cry outs during the night. I'm still wondering what they were about - they lasted about 1 min to 2 mins but didn't escalate and it went quiet suddenly when I was at the door ready to go in. I -think- it was bc she stuck in a position or lost her lovey and couldn't get to it. She hasn't been making any noise at night for some time now and she's quiet mobile around..I place another lovey at the other end of the crib just in case it doesn't make it in the migration.

I don't think it's lack of A though..as he's crying. It might be something that's bugging him.

Personally EM, I think he needs a longer last A, no? I mean you know him best and if he needs a shorter A before bed, then that's how he likes it Most los have the last A as the longest, but there are ones that like this the shortest!

hmm...I really want to nip this in the bud.

[Canadian_Mom]

Hey EM, sorry to see that things are still not going so good on the nightime front.  My LO also used to have 1-2 NWs of crying for short periods.  I would give him a minute or two before I would go in, because most of the time he would just settle himself.  He hadn’t done that for a few weeks now, but two nights in a row woke up screaming and would not settle.  He just kept rocking from his side to his tummy.  Gave him meds and he settled within 15min.  Gave him meds the last night before bed and no further NWs.   Before, if DS had flipped over and needed help I would flip him back and run out of the room, otherwise I find that he can’t settle if I stay.  Don’t know if your NWs are short or long? I find that makes a difference as in the cause of them for DS.

DS also doesn’t seem to like me in the room (this took me a long time to figure out)   I had tried shh/pat, PU/PD etc. with extended screaming and crying sessions when LO was 4 months and having trouble with bedtime.  My mom told me that maybe I was the reason for the crying and to try getting out of the room.  He fell asleep within 2 minutes of me leaving the room that night, same thing the next night and haven’t had any big issues since then!  The only thing that he could really tolerate is me putting my hand on his chest/back for his NWs and I stop doing that as soon as he flips on his side with his feet up against the crib (otherwise he just keeps flipping on his back and staring at me for a few seconds – as in “go away mom”).

I know that if my last A is too short I am guaranteed an earlier wake-up, but only by ~45min in the morning. (Currently last A is 3hr20m).

Hope my rambling helps!

[empowered mama]

yes, that is exactly how my LO has been at night, for the most part.  He does those brief cry outs and then resettles.  Obviously the nights where he is really OT, it is a real NW that takes some time.  But otherwise, they are exactly as you say.  He isn't quite all that mobile yet, and I have not introduced a lovey because I've wondered if he would just play with it and not go to sleep.  But perhaps I could try this?

Last night there were no NWs, but 2 somewhat brief EWs and both times I just rolled him over and he went back down quite easily.  Our As yesterday were 3h15, 3h15, and 3h5.  I really think it all has to do with the last A, but not sure to increase or decrease.  I think I might try 3h10 tonight (unless he really seems tired) and see what happens.  He always seems to settle in easy for bed with the shorter last A, so it's a tough call 

Thanks BM for your thoughts - your LO sounds very much like mine in that he tends to settle easy when I leave the room.

He seems to be in good spirits and better health, so let's hope for the best tonight!  I'll let you know how things pan out...

xxxxx - EM

[Jiinx]

EM, if your instincts tell you that he does better with a shorter last A time then pleeease keep it In fact, you can always trim it down and work from there!! If he wakes up early the next day then you could try extending it the next day.

Hope you had a lovely birthday.

[empowered mama]

well, we may have to try this again tomorrow.  DS just took a 45 min nap for nap #2 and I tried to extend for 20 min with no luck.  This length of nap hasn't happened in ages.  In your experience, were these naps UT for you? 

Not really sure what to do here.  I can't seem to justify putting him to bed at 5:30, but know we will have an OT mess on our hands if we don't yk?

After a moment of discouragement, I'm still determined to get on track however long it takes.  Thanks for hanging in with me...

[Canadian_Mom]

For my LO the nap length means nothing.  If he wakes up crying = OT, happy and shorter than 1.5hr = UT.  But I know that every LO is different!  I also have never been able to extend DS's naps when they were short, he just cries and cries.
Can you APOP for a CN?  Then try a shorter last A time and see if that makes a difference for the EW?

[empowered mama]

I used to be able to apply the crying = OT happy = UT idea, but these days I think he cries even when he wakes UT so it's a little harder to tell.  I also used to be able to extend naps, but not so much the case anymore 

My LO is the type who won't sleep anywhere but the crib.  I've tried everything and APOP simply has never worked for any nap unfortunately.  What a special little fella he is!

I appreciate your thoughts though - thanks for the empathy 

[Canadian_Mom]

DS also loves his crib!  He will only sleep in his carseat if he is really exhausted (and even then can take 10min to fall asleep), and the stroller never really worked for sleep.  There have been a couple of days that I "APOP", but not for the sleep but for the relaxing time.  It worked good for those few times that DH looks after DS and his naps are short all day.  I live out in the country and leave DS with DH for the day to get errands done in the city (I tell him when to put DS down for naps, but he forgets and gets OT naps).  I found that when I come home DS can still almost make it to bedtime with a car ride or long walk in the beginning/middle of his last A time.  Then very low key A time.

[Jiinx]

can you post your EAS for today?

Sounds like he was UT, EM...still tired but not tired enough to continue sleeping or perhaps too hungry? Was it close to his feeding?

[empowered mama]

Yes, it went like this:

Awake @ 6:35
E - 7:00
A -
S - 9:50 (tried to shoot for 3h20 A, but DS settled in really quickly) 1h5 min nap (UT) - up @ 10:55

E - 11:00
A -
S - 2:10 (did 3h15 and this gave us a 1.5 nap the day before - today was 45 min) - Having a hard time getting this feed on schedule so what I've been doing is BF from one side before the nap, and then the other side after the nap.  Not sure if this is a good idea??

E - 3:00
A -
S - 7.00 (I know - this was beyond late....)

I was expecting a terrible night since that last A was so long.  But would you believe that we only had 2 very brief NWs?!  I did introduce a lovely, so perhaps that may have been part of the problem?  (I caught him snuggled up to it a few times in the night  )  He did wake about 45 min early this morning, but not sure if that classifies as EW or not.

So, hmm.....I think he just confused me even more