EW due to OT or UT? 7 mo....

[Jiinx]

hmm the routine looks pretty good.

1) try an A time of 3 hours and 30 minute for the first A time
- this may give you a longer nap
- if he doesn't give you a long nap, you still have another chance..

Yesterday, she slept for 45 minutes for her first nap (sigh) and I tried for 10 minutes (sound familiar??) and she woke up after 20 minutes. Obviously not tired. I then kept her going for 4 hours (which I thought would give me a long nap) but she only did 1 hour and 10 minutes

- So what I'm trying to say: he may be able to handle more A time. I would say maybe 3 hours after a short A time?
- it sounds like he did well with a long A time before bed. My lo will go to sleep with a short A time before, sleeps more soundly, but wakes up 45 minutes earlier than usual. However, with a longer A time, she sleeps the 45 minute more. Does that make sense? She sometimes cries out at night, which makes me think I didn't nail the proper A time before bed..

2) some moms to half a feed before, and half a feed after. I recently tried just doing a full feed before and waited about 15 minutes before putting her to sleep..when she got up I gave her a snack of whatever and then fed her again 3 hours later.

How's your day going? so glad he enjoys his lovey - what did you end up using?

[empowered mama]

hmm...that is very interesting re: the longer last A vs. a shorter one.  How much longer is your LOs last A compared to the other 2? 

Today I bumped the 1st A and we got a good nap off 3h25 A.  I also bumped the 2nd A to 3h20 and we got a 1h15 min nap so it looks like I need to bump that a titch more.  Tonight I decided to go for a long last A just to see what happens.  We were out and about, stuck in traffic anyway, so he ended up asleep with 3h40 A. My guess is he either likes a much shorter last A or a much longer.  We shall see how it goes!

I like your feed schedule and may try something similar.  So many liquid and solid meals to fit in a 12 hr day....

For his lovey I used one of the little blanket with small animal attached toys.  He seems to like it quite well

All this is just so interesting to me....how one small thing in the day can effect sleep at night.  I often find myself wondering what on earth the rest of the world is doing?  Are their babies just that adaptable?

Ah well....thanks for the enlightening advice.  Appreciate you as always and will share the *good* news tomorrow 

[Jiinx]

well I kind of wing the last A really..she can handle 3 and half - 4 hours of A time on 40 minutes. However, I usually put her to sleep UT or not much more than 3 hours on 40 minutes.

I know it seems like his As are getting really high, but his age will catch up to the As. My As were high too at 6 and 1/2 - 7 months, but she's catching up now that she's more mobile.

That's a cute lovey. Similar to mine - a small lamb blankie with a lamb head and little corners that are thicker to suck on too.

I often wonder about other people too...I know some of my friends struggle, but often times they don't know where to start or their life style doesn't allow them to be flexible or stay at home to do sleep training.

[empowered mama]

you mind me asking why your put your LO to sleep UT?  Is it because you prefer to wake a little early?

Sooo, last night.  DS woke quite a few times, but only briefly and I had roll him over almost every time.  Then an EW around 5:15, so I decided to feed because I knew he wasn't going back down.  Thankfully, he went back to sleep after feeding for 20 min.  I thought this was odd since he did much better the other day on 4 hrs A.

I kind of have this feeling that we might be leaning more towards a shorter last A.  DS did a first nap of 2 hrs and a second of 50 min, so assuming he might like 3 hrs for his last A, I shaved off 15 min since it was a shorter nap to see what we get tonight. 

I was also wondering what you meant by LOs age catching up to the As - do you mean that they tend to hold steady on A time for a while?  Seems that we were increasing every few days for a while, but lately he's been holding tight for the most part.

Did you get a longer 1st nap today?  Was she needing yet another increase?

Thanks for paving the way for us   Will be in touch with another report.  Getting closer...

[Jiinx]

you mind me asking why your put your LO to sleep UT?  Is it because you prefer to wake a little early?

I prefer having the evening/night to myself as I teach Mon and Fri..I've just been used to it really. I don't mind waking early and going to sleep early as I can just really relax at night and not worry about her until morning. My brain, literally, turns off.

Sooo, last night.  DS woke quite a few times, but only briefly and I had roll him over almost every time.  Then an EW around 5:15, so I decided to feed because I knew he wasn't going back down.  Thankfully, he went back to sleep after feeding for 20 min.  I thought this was odd since he did much better the other day on 4 hrs A.

Oh dear. Do you think it's just getting "stuck"? He was having a hard time getting into a comfortable position? I'm sorry about your EW...he doesn't sound tired, though, if he only slept for 20 minutes though? What do you think?

I was also wondering what you meant by LOs age catching up to the As - do you mean that they tend to hold steady on A time for a while?  Seems that we were increasing every few days for a while, but lately he's been holding tight for the most part.

Yup, I do mean that. She held steady for a couple of months. With maybe 5 minute increments every other week or so. It was a slow increase. It does sound like he's increasing quite a bit..but I'm sure he'll find the sweet spot soon..plus with increase motor capabilities just around the corner...

Did you get a longer 1st nap today?  Was she needing yet another increase?

erm. sigh. Not sure what happened this morning. I thought she woke at 6:36 or so but I dozed off and I heard her again at 7. I put he to sleep at 10:15 but she was crying. She rarely cries when I put her to sleep so I had a big clue that she would wake up. And she did. After 30 something minutes. Really bummed about that..but had her going for her second A time at 3 and half hours and she fell asleep for 1 hour and 25 (well, I woke her)..took her to 7:20 which was, again, 3 hours and 30 minutes. It's not really about set As with her. Sometimes I just pray and hope for the best lol

Hugs. hope you have a nice night!!

[kikoz]

Hi there and hugs for you EM. i ave been following through your posts still sticking around
just a small idea for you... do you think you can practice with your baby rolling over during the day so that this will not bother him at night?... it maybe important for you to do that, otherwise this may become into a bad habit and cause the NWs... I mean he will start wanting you in at night ifykwim.
I am still struggling with my EW ... a bit stuck...
Hope you had a better night.

[empowered mama]

hmm....I wonder if my "rolling help" is part of the problem?  He definitely knows how to get back to his tummy, but at night can't seem to get there.  Part of it could be the sleep positioners we have in the crib.  Perhaps I should take them out and see if he can work it out himself?  It's so hard to not intervene, as we are in a 1BR apt and I hear every peep.  Plus I know that if I let him go for too long, he gets himself worked up and then takes longer to get back to sleep, so sometimes it's easier just to pop him back before it gets there yk?

S - I should have clarified:  I actually meant that he fed for 20 minutes, then went back to sleep for another 1.5 hrs, so I think he was still tired.

So last night was interesting (isn't is always?  )  No early NWs - he was sound asleep until around 1:15 and it took him a few min to get back.  No real crying though.  Then an EW around 4:15 - I could tell he was trying to get back to sleep, and he did for 20 then back up, then down for 20 min or so, then back up.  I fed him around 5:00 and miraculously he slept until 7:30 (though I don't think he was all that hungry).  All this definitely seemed like UT to me since he wasn't really crying - just frustrated.  I think I can now tell a difference between UT and OT EWs.  So hmm.....I guess the last A is somewhere between 3 and 3h40?  Does any of this sound right to you?

Hugs to you both with the short naps and EWs....hoping we can make some headway very soon.

[Jiinx]

How did you manage EM? Better naps? Night?

[kikoz]

Hi EM, hope you ahd a good night. I really think that its better for you to gradually stop from helping roll and remove all positioners...your EASY is looking good so since he can actually roll in the day, this may have become a prop yk?
maybe you can let him roll a bit before sleep in his crib? you kow my lo loves to do that before sleeping, for settling.
what do you think?

[empowered mama]

good afternoon friends....

I seem to be getting more confused as we go on.  Perhaps you can see something here?  This is what yesterday looked like:

1st A = 3h25 - got us 1h10 nap....thinking I need to bump a little

2nd A = 3h25 - got us a 55 min nap - OT or UT?

3rd A = 3hours

There were no NWs, except a brief little cry-out but he did wake about an hour earlier than what is typical (just before 6 - 10.5 hrs sleep).  I assumed that the 55 min nap meant UT, so I bumped it by 5 min today and he woke at 35 min which means OT here.  I think we were able to extend this though (crossing fingers). 

So, my guess is that the first A needs a little bump and the 2nd should go down a little - what do you think?  Do 55 min naps at this age go either way?  Still not entirely sure about that last A.  If he finishes this nap, I might try 3h15 and see what we get. 

I hope this is making sense - it's looking something like a physics formula 

I did remove the positioner and so far haven't had to roll him back (except for naps when he is playing around).  Thanks for the tip!

Happy 10 month birthday to your LO sarah - hope she blesses you with a glorious day and night of sleep 

[Jiinx]

*hugs* EM. Always have the sweetest words to say. she's been fine..I just nip and adjust accordingly to what she gives me.

Gawsh...he's not giving the typical naps hey. What happens when you put him down for his first nap at 3 hours? Does he give you a really short nap? I want to suggest pushing his first A to 3 hours and 30 but I want to make sure he's not giving OT naps, kwim?

If you really think that his naps are UT (for me they would be..especially if he wakes up happy). I would say, let's push his first A to 3 hours and 30 minutes and see what that gives us, k? If he gives you a little bit longer, great..if not we'll adjust for the next A.

For the second A, can you take him to 3 hours and 40? You may need to wake him up as then it'll be really close to bedtime. I know you suggested to shorten it...so you could put him down for 3 hours too. We still haven't determined if he likes a longer A as the day goes on or if he likes it shorter as the day goes on, right? My biggest clue is that she's just grumpy in the morning...and perks up as the day goes on.

fingers crossed for you.

[Canadian_Mom]

I know that DS has had 1hr20m OT naps before (woke up crying, was grumpy until had a better second nap), but has had the same length of nap for UT (wakes up babbling).  How was he inbetween the two naps? Maybe that could give you more of a cue for UT or OT?
Glad to hear about your night!

[empowered mama]

I have been putting him down at 3h25min for the 1st A time and we have been getting those 1h10-1h20min naps, so I think you're right about bumping it to 3h30min.  I'll give it a shot tomorrow and see what that gets us.

Looking back on the day our 2nd nap was OT I believe, as DS was somewhat grumpy and he did wake at 35 minutes after I pushed it, so I'm guessing we need to scale back a bit on this one?

S - based on what you shared: 

My biggest clue is that she's just grumpy in the morning...and perks up as the day goes on.

    - this is a big clue and would tell me that he most likely then prefers shorter As as the day goes on because he tends to lose his high spirits as the day progresses - what a great hint!

Do you know if it is common at this age for night sleep to vary anywhere from 10.5-12 hrs?  Some nights he gets much more and others not, so not sure if this is playing a factor within the nap issue or if this is normal yk?

Your thoughts are so helpful - thanks much and will keep testing things out 

[Jiinx]

Do you know if it is common at this age for night sleep to vary anywhere from 10.5-12 hrs?  Some nights he gets much more and others not, so not sure if this is playing a factor within the nap issue or if this is normal yk?

I was having 10.5 hours of sleep at your age...and then I started giving up on extending her naps and letting her sleep to whatever and whenever she wanted and she increased her nights on her own. She only gets 2 hours of sleep at her age, really. At your lo's age she was getting 2 hours and 15 minutes. So. Not a big sleeper.

I think it's normal to vary here and there..but there can be a consistent amount, yk? Average my lo gets is 11 hours and 15-30 minutes per night. She does the odd 12 hours or 11 hours sometimes. They can be off some days - just like us

We're going to get this sorted, EM. I mean we can always work our way up from a low A time and see what kind of A/nap/EW/night he gives us...

good luck. I look forward to hearing from you tomorrow with good news, I hope!!

[empowered mama]

Thanks for the encouragement S - have been feeling a little discouraged lately, but still sticking to it nonetheless.  Really thankful to have all of you for your support when things go awry...

Last night was a little rough - woke after 12 and then again at 3 and was up and down for an hour or so.  BF for a few minutes and he went back until just before 6. 

However today was pretty decent regarding naps.  Bumped his 1st A, but he settled in around 3h35min which was a little too high I think.  Though it did give us a 1h15min nap, so I'm not complaining

I shortened the 2nd A to 3h20 and we had a perfect nap, thank you lord.  So this tells me that he most likely does prefer shorter As as the day goes on.  I gave the last A 3h10, so we'll see if we get any wakings tonight (praying for a miracle!)

Will let you know how it goes- feeling confident