A time help - please help before I go mad!!!

[sianie]

Hi

I could really do with some help on this a I'm at the end of my tether & not sure what else to do   

DS is nearly 15 wks old & has been on 3 hr EASY since 6 wks. We have been going through the 45 min nap nightmare for the last few weeks which I have been trying to extend through HTTJ (was working most of the time). The last week has been horrible......overnight naps went from bad to worse and now I am struggling to extend his nap s past the 45 min mark....he does the usual jolts and wiggles and he seems to go back to sleep but only for 10 to 20 min periods and then he wakes again. I've also been trying W2S which seems to have the same results. Do you think this is because he is OT/UT?

I'm posting this here rather than naps board as I'm thinking maybe it's down to his A time....currently it's 1.5hrs & I'm wondering whether this is part of the problem?! Should I be trying to extend his A time....also aware that he need to be moving towards 4hr EASY?

Would really appreciate any views on this as it's making my days miserable!! I also have a 22 mo DD who, bless her, is feeling v. neglected at the moment which breaks my heart 

Thank you 

[deb]

Oh, it's SOOO much harder with two when the younger one doesn't wanna nap. We used to joke that my second one didn't have 2 days the same sleep-wise for her first two years, and my poor older DD got the brunt of it till I gave up and used the Baby Bjorn more.

Usually 45 min is UT, but the really restless stuff is generally OT. Hmmm....

What you might want to try, especially with another little one, is just getting him to sleep however you can for a while, trying to break the cycle. If you're able to extend his A time by maybe 10-15 minutes and see if that tweaks things enough, that's where I'd start.

For some ideas on the 45-minute nap thing, read here: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0.

Can you post his current EASY schedule? When he does wake and eat and sleep? Then we have a guide and can hopefully help you tweak it from there.

[sianie]

Thanks Deb!

Have a 2nd has been a real shock for me...I found dealing with DD alone challenging, this moves it to a whole new dimension!!!

I believe DS's short naps could be developmental (but UT or OT contributing as well..)

Current EASY varies a bit from day to day but typical one is below:

E: 7.30am
A: 1.5hrs
S: 9.00am (sleeps for 45 mins then try to extend for another 45/60mins)

E: 11am (I had been able to get him to do a 2hr stretch with HTTJ but the last week it hasn't worked!)
A: 1.5hrs
S: 12.30 (same as S above)

E: 2pm
A: 1.5hrs
S: 3.30pm (hour to 1.5hrs)

E: 5pm
A:1.5hrs

Bed and asleep by 7pm
DF around 10.30pm. He then usually wakes between 2 & 3am when I feed him. In a fitful sleep after this until 6.30am-7.30am when he's awake.
He has suffered badly with reflux from birth but this is now a lot better (although he still has it). He also has a dummy which is creating a bit of a problem at night (getting dependent!!) but I don't believe this is a prob so much for naps as its still in when he wakes up at 45mins.

Hope this is enough info?! Thanks for having a look 


I have been trying to get him to do 2hrs (no more) for 1st 2 naps so that the 3rd nap could be shorter (also we tend to be out more in the PM so it fits in easier and under less pressure for him to have a long nap...he doesn't sleep well out and about either!!). I used to be able most of the time to extend his morning & lunchtime nap to 2hrs by HTTJ but in the last week this isn't working anymore!!.

[deb]

I'm wondering since he's a refluxer that might still be playing a part. Josie's was probably at its worst from 3-4.5 months; by 5 months it was much much better and we could take her off the Zantac, but before then that was the ONLY thing that kept her sleeping thru the pain. Is your LO on meds? If so, he might need a dose adjustment as his weight increases.

Josie's early waking was what was starting our day off so badly: She'd wake tired from that 5AM-ish half-waking and not really getting back to deep sleep, so could only handle an hour awake, and then wouldn't be tired enough to sleep more than one 45-minute sleep cycle, and it set the pattern for the day, that waking-up-tired thing. We had to get past that, which is why we started the one-sided "snacks" at naptime, to give her enough calories to stock up during the day and sleep better at night. Within a few days she was waking only slightly at 5AM and went back with a paci, and then sleeping thru it entirely, and between that and the reflux meds, life was much much saner!

When Josie woke at 45 minutes from naptime, she would stir and spit the paci OUT; I got good at sticking it back IN before she woke up fully, anf she began sleeping thru that waking within a few days as well.

Anything in there helpful?

[sianie]

Thanks....

Yep, he's on meds and we recently increased them in line with his weight (he's a big boy!).

I hadn't thought about how his restless sleep at the end of the night might be effecting his naps so good point!! When you say 'one sided' snacks I guess you mean you fed her before her nap? If these short naps are partly due to the fact he doesn't get back into a deep sleep after waking in the early hours, what A time do you think would work?

DS does do the same with his paci at 45 min mark, as he stirs he spits it out. I'm usually in with him when this happens so re-plug quickly!

Interestingly I was late putting him down for his nap (he's asleep at the mo!) so I started wind down after 1.5hrs A...he did his usual wriggling at 45 mins but so far (crossing everything!!) he has stayed asleep! 

[deb]

Yep, for a week or so I gave Josie a "snack" before each nap, and then gradually reduced by a nap a day and then cut them out entirely. It got more calories into her and boosted my supply too so her regular feeds were bigger ones, so she was less likely to wake form hunger in the early morning hours. I'd say a total of 7-8 days I did that, maybe? Can't remember if I put that in the nap post any more, it's been 8 years now.

It sounds like you may have hit on a good A time for now, even if it was by accident! Maybe give it a day or two and see if you can find a pattern, and you can gradually increase it over the next couple weeks if it seems to need some tweaking still.

[jackman]

Hi Deb, I was just reading this post and was wondering how much is a 'snack' before the nap to help your lo get more calories throughout the day?

[deb]

Hi Jackman, in our case a "snack" was one breast before nap, so about 75-90 minutes after the full feed, the E in EASY.

[sianie]

Deb - did you find that the snack made a difference to naps?

Have been tweaking A time over the last few days & DS seems to be nearer 1hr 45 A time (which I guess is about right as he's nearly 15wo?), naps have got a bit better but it's such a challenge sleep training with DD around too 

[deb]

I was never able to get sleep training at all with Nat as big sis Josie needed me too. And then even when DH took Josie to grandparents for the weekend, Nat was having none of it anyway. You're way ahead of me getting this much done!

As for the snack feed, I think it helped her sleep thru the night more consistently first, and then that in turn translated into better day sleep too as she wasn't waking up tired in the first place.

[sianie]

Might be worth giving it a go...thanks!

Think DS is teething now too  , so another sleepless night!!! He came in with us at 6am as I didn't have the energy to get up at that time 

[NicolleD]

Wow I could have written your post myself! My dd is 15 weeks as well and I am currently sitting here trying to extend her nap. She has been 45 min napping for a while and I thought I had cracked it but no I think hers is also developmental and OT/UT but I just cant seem to get it right! I can often extend her naps with httj but not so much recently. I tried extending her A time this morning and she still woke at 45 mins So I'm afraid I don't have any advice but I do sympathise and am reading along with great intersest. Good luck, Nicolle x

[sianie]

Hi Nicolle...it's so frustrating isn't it!!!

I've been tweaking DS's A time for the past few days and naps are a bit better (his A time is now around 1hr 45, give or take)....I still have to be with him around the 45 min mark as he jolts & wriggles still, but I have to do less to get him through to the next sleep cycle  ........sure that will all change again tho!

What does your LO's day look like at the mo?

[NicolleD]

Well tbh no 2 days are the same at the moment! I aim for 1.30 awake time but I think it goes wrong from the word go as she doesn't sleep that well between 5.30 and 7 but wants to be asleep, so I'm trying the topping up idea to see if that helps as she's not a great eater! Today has not been too bad she had 1.5 hr nap and a 2 hr nap (in the slung as we were out) and now is down for nap 3. I don't seem to be able to judge her sleepy cues very well any more and it doesn't help that she yawns from when she gets up to when she goes down. We are having dummy issues as well so that's not much help!
Nicolle x

[sianie]

I've been winding DS down after 1.35hr A time so he's asleep by 1.45hr & that has helped...might be worth trying that?

I think a lot of it is just trying to be patient whilst their sleep matures, tho it's really hard going on a day to day basis, especially when you move forward, only for things to blow up in your face 

DS has a dummy too which isn't so much of a problem for naps more at night, especially after his night feed (usually wakes around 2.30am-3am & I feed him), after this he's really unsettled right through to morning & because he never seems to get into a deep sleep, he wakes when his dummy falls out! If it's not one thing it's another eh!