Author Topic: 6 month old... now random nap times, awake 20mins in mid of naps, confusing...  (Read 3336 times)

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Offline Alexa's mummy

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Hi there, wondering if anyone can shed some light on whats happening??

my DD has been pretty great at napping since we realised we needed to extend A times at 4minths ish, and on a 4h EASY she was doing 2h A, 2 h naps : )

since moving to 2h45mins A/ 2h 50min A at first she continued to give great naps, but they seem to gradually be geting shorter, despite her seeming MORE tired in the A times (at say 2h30mins awake...)

i am trying to stretch her out to 2h 40mins A as if i put her down at 2h30min she UT naps. but 45mins into the nap she wakes and stays awake groaning for up to 20mins, then sometimes she can go back to sleep, sometimes she cant. then she is WAY OT for the rest of the day, so we have to do early BT, as thres no time to fit another nap in. from looking thru some other ppl are having similar probs. cld she be nearing 2-1 transition already?? but surely not as she seems to be going backwards in that she's struggling to stay awake for 2h30mins A.... i dont think her sleepy cues are boredom all the time, but sometimes a change of scene seems to help.

could she be waking at 45mins due to OT? sh has just woken after 45mins sleep following 2h40min A time and she's rubbing hr eyes but she couldnt get back to sleep. she did the exact same A this am and followed with a 2h nap!! (tho woke at 45min and took 15-20mins to get back to sleep!)

anyone any ideas??

Anna xx
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Offline becky1969

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Oh dear no, this is no where near the 2-1 transition! You're still on 3 naps! Even the early transitioners don't show signs until 10 months old.

OK, if she did the 2h40 A time earlier in the day and woke at 45 minutes, then took 15-20 to get back to sleep for a total of 2h then I'd say she's OT.

At her age, 2h30 is a more typical A time.  I'd probably back her up to 2h30.  I know you said you got UT naps there before, but perhaps she was still a tad OT at that time as well.

Is she teething by any chance? When teething or ill a LO can often be more tired than normal, which can cause them to need a reduction of A time by 15 to even 30 minutes.

Try the 2h30 and report back!
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Offline Alexa's mummy

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thanks Becky... got this just in time for nap 1 today! i will try 2h 30 and let u know. i dont think she is teething, no. but we have started solids in last few weeks. she has since started STTN most nights. generally i don't think she is OT but i realise how quickly it can mount up if she continues to short nap! i will do 2h 30 before i put her down, it usually takes her 5min to fall asleep. when she's short napped on this A time amount before tho, she's woken happy, whereas on 2h 45 she wakes NOT happy!

will see how it goes today and let you know. thanks SO much for replying : D xx
Anna x

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Offline becky1969

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GL! Hope it works!  :)
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

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Offline Alexa's mummy

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thank you... you were right!! (OT) she did 2h 25 A when i put her down, 5 mins to fall asleep, then a 2h nap, 2nd one was 1h30. so her last A was 2h 45mins in bed by 6.30 (started day at 7.20) so not too bad!

strange how a couple of weeks ago she started UT napping (1h or 1h 20mins) after 2h 30 A's which is why i extended and at first 2h 45 gave 2h naps, then 45mins... i guess OT accumulated?! she's been much happier today which is great.

thanks so much, help VERY much appreciated! : D

Anna xx
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Offline becky1969

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Yay!!!

This is a really crazy period in their life.  Teeth usually start making an appearance (or more come in), plus in another month or so mobility will start to be an issue.  All of that is going to make getting As right difficult for some babies -- they get more tired out some days than others. 
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

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Offline Alexa's mummy

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Hi Becky,

i have had a terrible day, Alexa ended up being awake over 4 hours today... and seemingly could not fall asleep at all for 2nd nap. today went:

awake 7.10
A: 2h 25m seemed REALLY tired
S: 9.35 - 10.50 (1h 15 therefore UT??)
A: 10.50 - 1.15 (2h 25m)
here was where it went wrong- she fell asleep in car 1pm -1.10, so i got in, and brought her straight to bed. she cried properly, til i calmed her, put her down at 1.15pm and left her. she laid in bed babbling and doing her OT shrieks (yet not crying) for over 1.5 hours!! i tried swaddling her arms which sometimes works when she OT, doing short WD etc, but she just laid there winding herself up for so long i eventually got her up, fed her and went out with pram. she finally fell asleep after over 4h awake!! obviously then did an OT 45min nap, so BT by 6, sleep by 6.15 and an OT waking at 9pm where i had to BF back to sleep : (

i have started to feel really exhausted with all the naps. i had pure melt down today myslef and couldnt stop crying i am just so exhausted of counting A times and never daring leave the house for fear of messing up the routine. i feel i am 6m in now, with (granted) a WONDERFUL, happy baby who i adore. but i spend so much time thinking about her sleep. and counting minutes. and when something goes wrong over analysing what i did/should have done differently. today i had a rare day of actually going out, and her sleeping in the car messed it all up. or i guess her getting frustrated cos she was woken when tired which led to her getting OT. i cant keep her in the car seat as unfortunately (touchy baby) she wakes AS SOON as the car stops! i have taken her up before and put in cot and it worked but not today. gosh i really feel like i've hit a wall, BW is a real double edged sword as its helped me know my baby so much better, and meet her needs, but i am getting depressed being in the house all the time. i have 3months of maternity leave left, ad the weather is sunny and the thougth of just staying in counting A times makes me want to cry (again)!!

i am thinking of trying a more CLB (Gina Ford) routine. i dont agree with her sleep training advice etc, but my DD is a great independent sleeper now, so i wonder if a CN, 2h nap, CN routine could work. at least the am and last pm can be done in car or pram so i could get out the house, and i could make sure she gets 2h t lunch time. but maybe she's too young for this. i am v scared to change everything, and would feel like i was stopping following my baby, but i feel like i am reaching the end of my rope 

does you have any experience of this? i might post a q on the naps board. tho i realise its not BW so why would BW'ers be able to advise me on this LOL?!

i looked up on the internet and a sample routine which i think must be CLB is:

up at 7am,

S: 9/9.30 (30-45m)
S: 12.30-2.30
S: 4-4.30

bed by 7pm.

i was just wondering, if Alexa starts the day around 7.15 (usually) if i put her to bed at 9.15 she'll likely do an UT nap of 45m and wake happy. then i guess she could just about manage to stay up til 12.30 (A: 2h30mins after a 45minn nap??) which she would be pretty exhausted for, so maybe do full 2h, then give her a CN in pm at 4ish to see her to BT?? i am just wondering if i can change things so i can actually start having more of a life, and enjoy time with my baby more plus i am thinking this could eliminate the 2-1 transition at 10/12 months ish as you'd just drop the CN's and keep the lunchtime nap?? this way at least i could get out the house either AM or PM and AP those shorter naps, with the long one in the house. could htis be a terrible idea?? i am just really tired of counting A's now  :'(

what do you think?

Anna xx
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Offline becky1969

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First off, hugs honey.  Motherhood is NOT easy.  And anyone who tells you it is, is lying!

Definitely cannot advise you on GF as that is not our program.  So, I'm afraid you'll have to pursue that on your own.

But I can tell you my concerns: 2 45 min cat naps plus a 2 hour nap is only 3.5 hours of daytime sleep.  At this age, most LOs require more like 4.5-5.  That routine might work OK at first, but for many children (especially touchies) they will start to get cumulatively OT which will either give you NWs and/or EWs.  I just don't think it's a long term solution.

That said, there is absolutely no reason why some days you can't just chuck the whole A time thing and get out and enjoy the day! LOL!  As long as you tell yourself "We are not worrying about naps today.  if she takes a great nap or two, fine.  If not, then who cares because we're going to have fun."

Also, this is SOOOOOOOOOO temporary!!!!! You are on the CUSP of the 3 hour A time window at which point life really really REALLY opens up!  With 3 hours it's so much easier to get out and do stuff without the risk of them falling asleep in the car.  In another month she won't even have a cat nap which also gives you more freedom.  I know right now it feels like you've been counting As forever, and that you will for another stretch of forever.  But the first 6 months are so hard!!!! The 2nd 6 months get progressively easier.  A year from now, it will be a whole different universe, and this first year will be a blur.


It's all about finding a balance between what works for your child and what works for your family.  If you've just had it with counting As, take a day or two off and with my blessing!  ;)  Everyone feels that way sometimes!!!


Now, for the schizophrenic A times, LOL! I really suspect she's got teeth on the move.  When that happens, they are exhausted one day and need a shorter A and then the next day they are totally wired and ready for more! 1h15 *does* sound UT to me, and you were doing more like 2h40 before.  You might go back to that and see how she does.

Personally, as long as she sleeps an hour I wouldn't worry about it too much.  She's going thru some kind of something right now (I think it's teeth) and so it's better for you to just pick an A time and stick with it for awhile and keep your sanity.  If she sleeps more than an hour, great.  If less than an hour then we know we have to pick a different A to stick with. 

Obviously the car nap was messed up.  This is also an age where even if kids were movable before, they aren't now.  You were lucky to get it to last this long.  My touchy little guy NEVER handled being moved.  Not even at 3 weeks old.  ::)


Hang in there, love! You can pick whatever method you want, but I can tell you truthfully that a method only works if you stick with it.  If you need to take a break from sleep training, do it.  I'll tell you another little secret: some kids are just touchy about sleep.  So, even if you decide to wing it for awhile, it may not mean more peace for you at home b/c your kiddo will be so exhausted.  I wish we could all get easy kids who do fine even on little or no sleep.  But it doesn't work that way.  Some kids are just harder to figure out in the sleep department, which is why BW was invented!  :)  I had a touchy guy, and my DH was about to clobber me over the head with a frying pan if I said "Overtired" one more time in the first couple of years of his life.  But we made it thru, with some phases being easier than others. 


Do what you have to for your sanity's sake.  But don't feel like you're alone.  We alllllll been there.  And eventually they do get bigger and have fewer naps, and life gets easier.  :-*

Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline afeswick

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Hi Anna,
its
You're not alone in having a messed up routine with a 6 month old.  My son has thrown his EASY routine out the window the last two weeks, and its so frustrating to try to figure out what to do and what will work now.  Ethan seems to be doing the routine you have...catnap at 9 for 45min, then a 2 hour nap at noon, and then another catnap at 4, with a bedtime of 7 and mornings at 7.  I know his A time is supposed to be extended, but after Ethan had his big lunch nap, we went for a walk and he fell asleep only an hour and 40 min later......
So unpredictable lately!

Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone! Hope we can all hang in there. 

Offline Alexa's mummy

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thank you both for such lovely support. really helps. being surrounded by people who's babies dont struggle due to OT make me feel like i am crazy or even making all this up sometimes!

the way i hoped yest would go was more BW than CLB (who says at 6m they need no sleep after 2.30pm til bed at 7!!!!) so i basically just didn't stress that her first nap was UT, then did a long 2h nap at lunch. but then i went out for a walk.... and walked for 2h in pouring rain while she cried and did not sleep??! our day went:

up at 6.50
A: 6.50-9.05 (2h10)
S: 9.05-10.05 (1h)
A: 10.05-12.30 (2h25)
S: 12.30-2.30 (2h)
A: 2.30-6.30!!
i left the house at 3.30/45 thinking she'd have time to look around in pram, then sleep about 4.30/5ish. instead she just cried. and i was miles from home in pouring rain, when i got her out pram she stopped crying but i couldnt carry her as it was literally tipping it down. i got home at 530 and tried to put her to bed for CN but of course she was way OT by then. then tried car at 6pm, then gave up and BT by 6.30 (with no tears) but then OT waking at 9pm again. i just feel all my attempts fail.  yesterdays plan was following her needs while me still getting out house, she wasn't meant to be awake more than 2.5hrs, yet it didnt work!

i think i am just really tired of my baby's sleep needs. but i realise she absolutely needs it so there is nothng i can do about it.

started day at 5.30 today (2 early nights in a row, cant blame her for wanting to get up that time!) so she's done S: 8.10-10am now 12.30-(hopefully til 2.30!) thn i am going to try CN out in pram again as its sunny. so i spose were just back with 3 naps and i'm trying not to stress if first nap is UT, tho today i'm glad it wasnt as it'll lengthen our day out to a normal BT hopefully! i was really pleased when it seemed we had dropped the CN, but actually it was more restrictive to me, as ihe middle A now we're on solids (and also combination feeding) is mostly feeding as i give her a BF, lunch, bottle, then wind down then bed again!!

i think i will continue not to stress about the first nap being UT as she seems desperate to be put into bed (maybe it is teeth Becky? tho she is sleeping well at other naps and BT) so i will continue to follow her cues in that sense, then see the CN as my chance to get out the house.

thanks again for the support, i am very grateful for having people to vent to who really understand. i wouldn't change my daughter for anything, but sometimes i just wish she didnt have SUCH prescriptive sleep needs!! my DP is giving me a day off tomorrow so hopefully that'll allow me to recharge, and not count minutes for once!!

thanks again,

Anna xx 
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Offline Alexa's mummy

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well, i guess it serves me right for planning, but she only slept 12.30-1.10. i left her groaning for 20mins until i went to ger her. so UT??! so now i dont know wht to do with the rest of the day. its 1.45pm now, do i put her down at 3pmish? (2h awake after 40m nap?) or should i keep it longer or shorter? i am so exhausted and confused!
Anna x

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Offline becky1969

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Hi sweetie!

You got an awesome 1st nap out of her with a 2h40 A time.  That may be where she's comfortable right now.  2nd nap was after only 2h30, so that may explain the short nap.  Esp. since she had nearly 2 hours in her. 

I think I might try a 2h45 A tiem for now and see how she does on that.


You're going to have to keep the cat nap until she can handle a 3h A time.  That's just how the math works out.



And right now, since she's kind of all over the map, I think I'd just try to have some perspective and just not worry about it.  For instance, yesterday when she didn't fall asleep, just don't worry about ti! Sounds like even though she didn't sleep, she slept OK last night?  That's pretty awesome!  So you didn't really have any consequences for missing that nap.
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline Alexa's mummy

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thanks Becky i think youre right abt UT. did CN 3.30-4.10 i was going to let her sleep up to an hour but she woke ??OT?!!

the first A time was 2h10min, then 1h50 nap then 2h25 A which led to UT nap? so i guess she needs 2h35 at least??! but she was begging to be put down after 2h10min first A time.

i think youre def right about perspective. this too shall pass! i am just worried about the OT wakings in the early part of the night, at 9pm. due to messed up naps we've had 2 nights of these. tonight i am anticipating another. it worries me as the ONLY thing that calms her is to BF to sleep which i REALLY dont want to become a bad habit.

thanks agian xxxx
Anna x

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Offline afeswick

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I think someone will shoot me for saying this, but we feed Ethan to sleep at night only (naps in the day he gets put down awake in his crib).  This is after his bedtime routine.  Some people say that feeding a baby to sleep is a very natural way of doing things.  Is she actually eating at night, or just for comfort? Because if she's eating, I think its ok, but if she just wants to cuddle, maybe not!

Offline becky1969

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5:30 to 8:10 =2h40.  Make sure you're counting A time from moment eye is open to the moment it shuts again.

A waking so soon after going to bed is often an OT waking.  Until you get your days going better, I wouldn't worry about the feeding to sleep right now.  You need to feel like you have a way to get her back to sleep right now since you feel like days are so out of control.  We can work on that later, once napping is more consistent.
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!