Worried that lack of sleep will hurt my 6 month old

[afeswick]

Hello,

As I mentioned in another post, my LO had a great routine until 2 or so weeks ago when it all went out the window for some reason.  Every time I try to put him down for a nap, he starts freaking out!  I don't understand, because I use the same routine I always have, including swaddling and noise maker and stroking his head.  As soon as I try to lay him vertical he goes ballistic.  I try rocking, walking, everything but even though he's clearly tired, he fights sleep. I've tried PU/PD, patting, laying him on my bed, but as soon as he knows its "nap time" he starts crying hysterically.  Today he was dry heaving he was so upset, so I just took him out of the crib and after calming him down, let him play quietly on his back with some toys in another room (so its not reflux). He just wants to look around and play.  It took me 2 hours today to get him down, and in the end I had him in a carrier and I took him out, walked up stairs and not even halfway up he instantly fell asleep from exhaustion.  Obviously I don't want him to be exhausted, he was up over 3.5 hours!

What do I do with a LO that goes on a napping strike? Its the same fight at every nap.  I am worried he's going to get sick from lack of sleep or something, or he'll have a bad association with his crib from all this fighting.  Plus I am worried that I'm going to lose my temper and its just not making parenting enjoyable....

Please help!

[afeswick]

I should mention that he's currently been asleep for 2 hours....so a good nap at least.

[Shiv52]

Will you post your EASY so I can have a look?

[Alexa's mummy]

just wanted to say i know how you feel. the constant worry about sleep, how much, and when is exhausting. i'm sure, however that this period of disruption will do no more harm then him maybe not being as energised and happy as he usually is. and hopefully you'll be back on track soon. as becky said to me, we are on our way to when naps get easier. i am really looking forward to 2 nap or better yet, 1 nap world. in the meantime we should congratulate ourselves for the energy we invest in this for our LO's. a lot of people wouldn't do half as much as you are. so well doe you and i hope things improve for you soon xx

[afeswick]

I have to post 3 days of EASY because his routine is all over the place....I have recorded them all week, trying to find some sort of pattern.  There are, so far, none to be found. BTW, he still feeds every 3-4 hours at night and then goes right back to sleep.  Also, he is so hard to feed in the day, loves solids but when it comes time to formula he gets soooo distracted, its really frustrating for both of us.  We had a good E.A.S. going but now....well, you'll see!

Tuesday:
A 7am
E 8am (2oz) and 3T pears
A
S 10:40 (very tough putting him down, I started at 9:30)

E 12:40 (2.5oz)
A solids
E 2:10 (4.5oz)
S 3:50 (again, fought for the nap)

A 4:20
E 5:20 (2oz)
A
E 6:50 (4.5oz)
S 7:10
E 9:50 (4oz)
E 1:20am (5oz)
E 5:30am (3oz)

Wednesday:
A 6am wake (out of crib at 6:45)
   7:30 solids and 1oz formula
E 8:30 (3oz)
S 8:45 (put him down and he was out within 5 minutes)

A 9:15
E 11:30 (3oz)
S 11:50 (again, went down easy)

A 2:20
E 3:30 (1oz and 1T solids)
A
S 4:00

E (1oz)
A 4:30
E 7:00 (5oz)
S 7:15
E 10pm but hard to resettle, I made the mistake of leaving him too long and he woke and wouldn't go back down until midnight.  This hasn't happened in months

Thursday
E 6:45 (5oz)
A
S 8:55 (went down easy)

A 9:35, 3T pears
S 10:30 (fell asleep in the car which I wasn’t expecting)

E 11:00 (woke because we were in the movie theater, 2oz)
A
S 1:15 (fell asleep on the way back)

E 2:15 (5oz)
A
S 4:30

A 5:30
E 7:15
S 8:10 (took an hour)

Today:
E 5:45am (2oz and went back to sleep)
A 7:45
E 9:00 (3T pears and 1oz formula)
S 11:20 (started at 9:40)

E 1:35 (3oz)
A …got sleepy at 2:55 and this is where we currently are!

[Shiv52]

Thanks for that!! 

Ok...here is some info I always use when i'm problem solving:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652

Late 5 months/early 6 months 2.25-2.5 hours
6.5 - 7 months 2.75-3 hours. Some are getting more

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85130.0

4-6 months                                                           Two naps, 2-3 hours each OR;
Gaining mobility                                                       3 naps; 2 2hr naps & 1 45min catnap
                                                                                10-12 hours at night

6-8 months                                                            Two naps 1-2 hours each;
More mobility; able to                                                   10-12 hours at night
sit and crawl


Looking at the days you posted I can see things are a bit up and down and firstly {{hugs}}.  It is no fun for anyone when LOs don't nap. 

At six months things can go a bit hectic as they are ready to drop the CN and just have two longer naps so thats maybe whats happening here. 

A few things that stuck out from your last few days.  One is A times are kind of all over the place (and I know that is because of his short napping and being out and about) and secondly I don't think he's getting enough milk in before his sleep time.   

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=67933.0

Once your baby reaches six months, you can feed him anywhere from 180-220 ml / 6-8oz at a feeding, and his total formula intake should be roughly 900ml / 32oz per day.

Once you start adding solids to his diet, his daily intake of formula milk should gradually decrease to about 720ml / 24oz

At 6 months, milk is the most important source of nutrition for your baby.  Solids are for taste and exposure especially at this young age.  Milk is much more calorific and has lots more nutrients whereas solids are mainly empty calories.  So on TUes morn, your LO only had 2oz of milk and then the pears so could possibly have been hungry by the time he was going for his nap.  I probably would have left the solids and offered the bottle again an hour later to fill him up before his sleep.  And on that night he actually ate nearly as much through the night as he did through the day (12 vs 15oz)which makes me think he's making up for what hes not eating during the day and you need to somehow switch that.  At 6 months a DF (and poss one night feed) should be adequate. 
 
Few questions as I think there is a few different things going on:

What time do you aim to start your day and what is your ideal bedtime?
Have you tried feeding bottles in a quiet room with nothing else going on?
Are you using the faster flow teats you can find?
Are you leaving one hour/90 minutes between milk and solids?  (so milk first, then solids)
How many weeks is your LO (different A times for early and late 6 months!)?
Have you ever used anything to extend naps in the past that worked?
Any sign  of teeth?


I'll get back to you when I know the answers but I think a combination of trying to find a consistent A time that works, establishing 2 naps and getting more milk in through the day should help things settle again. 
 
You will get there!  You'll be back on track  before you know it x

[afeswick]

Hi Shiv52,

Thanks for the lengthy reply.  I too read the "is my baby ready to increase his A time" but he shows all the tired signs sometimes just short of the 2 hour mark.  And it seemed like when I tried to extend the A he got OT. He generally is getting about 11.5 or 12 hours sleep during the night though, and I try really hard to have him nap a total of at least 3 hours in the day.

I'll answer the Qs in the order you posed them:
1. We aim to start our day around 7 or 7:30am.  Ethan used to be awesome, he'd wake at 7:30 plus or minus 15min.  Our bedtime routine starts around 6:30 or so and he used to be in bed and asleep by 7pm or shortly after.
2. Lately I've tried feeding in a dark room (bust).  It seems like he'll eat ok right after the nap (and I mean right after, I can't let him wake up too much or he's too active, so its hard when he only naps 45min and I wait it out to see if he'll go back to sleep, or try to get him back to sleep (I don't think this has ever worked).  I can't have any TV or music on, no one else can be in the room, and I can't talk, or he gets way too distracted.  And what's frustrating is I know he's hungry, but he's whipping his head around looking at everything.  I've tried using toys, singing, not looking at him.  Sigh.
3. Tried faster teats several times..he's still on the first ones (newborn)! He ends up sputtering and not drinking much, so I go back to old faithful to try to get him to eat.  I don't know if I should try for a whole day or not.  I also read something that claimed different nipple sizes was bogus, since the boob never changes like that.  I get myself so confused the more I read!
4. Nope, I usually feed solids after the milk, because I am trying to go the 4 hours between E times.  The thought was that he would eat more at a setting.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
5. My LO is exactly 26 weeks today.  And instead of celebrating, I find myself regretting ever having him, which even as I type that it makes me cry.  I worry he will catch on that I am frustrated with him, and he'll hate me for that and also for forcing him to nap.  I hate to hear him cry. 
6. I haven't really tried to extend naps with any method, I am too worried about the OT monster, which is a hysterical, red-faced, dry heaving one that scares the crap out of me.
7. He's had signs of teething for months, but no teeth.  I don't know where those guys are.

to continue the EASY from today, he went down at 4:05pm quite easy (but wanted to suck my finger so I let him), and woke at 4:40.  Then we went to a pub with a visiting colleague of my husbands, and Ethan started getting fussy but had only been up for an hour and a half.  I took him home, did the bedtime routine, fed him at 7:15 and he was almost asleep a few times but then started the hysterics again.  I never let it get far, I walked around with him, let him sit in my lap since he didn't want to lay down.  He'd be content for about 5-10 min,but then start bucking and crying and rubbing his eyes.  But didn't want to lay down.  This went on a few times, until finally I gave him about an oz more of formula (was trying the entire time) and he finally fell asleep sucking.  It was now 8pm. 

Sorry this was so long. 

[Shiv52]

Hey there

Sorry for late reply.  Someone switched my toddler for a monster earlier on today (she does have a cold/cough and is teething her 4 canines at once but still....so whiny!) and have been trying to get on to reply but the rascal had other ideas!  Am going to try answer all your queries. I have put your post in blue and I've answered each bit below.  HTH!
 

Thanks for the lengthy reply.  I too read the "is my baby ready to increase his A time" but he shows all the tired signs sometimes just short of the 2 hour mark.  And it seemed like when I tried to extend the A he got OT. He generally is getting about 11.5 or 12 hours sleep during the night though, and I try really hard to have him nap a total of at least 3 hours in the day.
I really think increasing the A time is the key here.  I think he starts out UT and because of all the fussing etc he winds up being OT throughout the day.  Your aim for total sleep for the day is spot on for his age but his A time is way below average.  2 hours is what a 4 month old would typically do.  at 6.5 months typically its 2hr45-3hrs so I think you need to start working toward that.  One thing I will point out is alot of LOs at 5/6 months don't show reliable tired signs and what looks like a tired sign is actually a bored sign and a signal that they need a new activity and we continue to think they are tired and try to put them down and they are thinking 'hey i was looking for something to do, not for bed' and then you end up with a LO who fights the nap and ends up exhausted IYSWIM?  Took someone on here to point that out to me a long time ago when i was having major nap issues!  I would consistently try for 2hr30 (2hrs15 if you think he'll get OT) and then gradually upto 3 hours over the next few weeks as there is another jump in A time at 8/9 months and things can get tricky if A time is still very low as LOs often start to cut their daytime sleep. 

I'll answer the Qs in the order you posed them:
1. We aim to start our day around 7 or 7:30am.  Ethan used to be awesome, he'd wake at 7:30 plus or minus 15min.  Our bedtime routine starts around 6:30 or so and he used to be in bed and asleep by 7pm or shortly after.

Great.  Just wanted to know so when we look at a routine I know when you want to start it!  I'd make sure too that at 6.5 months he's getting at least a 12 hour day (we always did 13hr day/11 hour night to accomodate naps and back to 12/12 after switch to one nap) so if he wakes at 7.30 aim for bed 12 hours later. 

2. Lately I've tried feeding in a dark room (bust).  It seems like he'll eat ok right after the nap (and I mean right after, I can't let him wake up too much or he's too active, so its hard when he only naps 45min and I wait it out to see if he'll go back to sleep, or try to get him back to sleep (I don't think this has ever worked).  I can't have any TV or music on, no one else can be in the room, and I can't talk, or he gets way too distracted.  And what's frustrating is I know he's hungry, but he's whipping his head around looking at everything.  I've tried using toys, singing, not looking at him.  Sigh.

I think this is largely developmental.  They do become very interested in what is going on around them.  I remember the days of being about to sit and watch telly and drink a cuppa while I fed and then it just stopped.  I'd keep going with a quiet environment though. 


3. Tried faster teats several times..he's still on the first ones (newborn)! He ends up sputtering and not drinking much, so I go back to old faithful to try to get him to eat.  I don't know if I should try for a whole day or not.  I also read something that claimed different nipple sizes was bogus, since the boob never changes like that.  I get myself so confused the more I read!

I'd persevere with the next teat up.  I think he's probably getting frustrated with the slow flow and just gives up.  Seems like he is taking enough to curb his hunger and then giving up as its such hard work.  From what I have read its definately not bogus.  BF babies go from taking 45-1hour feeds for the first while and then reduce to about 30 minutes and then by 4-6 months get the same amount of milk in 10-15 minutes.  (I bf DD so speaking from personal experience also).  BF babies learn to adapt their sucking and become much more efficient feeders and therefore get the same amount of milk, usually more as they age in a much shorter space of time.  The equivalent for a FF baby is increasing the teat to a faster flow.  Even it FF baby increases his sucking with a newborn teat there is still only 1 hole for the milk to come out IYSWIM.  With BF babies they are able to make more contact with the bits of the breast and nipple that make the milk and therefore get more produced at one time.  Make sense?  If you find the next teat up is too fast I know people who have sterilised a needle and made another hole/2 holes in their newborn teat to increase the flow that way and once the baby is used to it more up to the next teat.  Another way to look at it is that he's not taking much during the day at the minute so if you don't think he'll take less its probably worth persevering.

Have you planned when you are going to wean those night feeds?  Cutting those out will help milk intake during the day too when you are ready.  Can he settle if don't offer milk at NWs?


4. Nope, I usually feed solids after the milk, because I am trying to go the 4 hours between E times.  The thought was that he would eat more at a setting.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

At 6 months, I'd do milk and then solids 45 minutes/1 hour later.  Stops them making an association that they can just leave milk as solids will appear right away.  The aim is to spread the eating across the A time so milk intake isn't affected by solids.  Once you get to 9/10 months a milk feed will drop and be replaced but for now milk is most important. 


5. My LO is exactly 26 weeks today.  And instead of celebrating, I find myself regretting ever having him, which even as I type that it makes me cry.  I worry he will catch on that I am frustrated with him, and he'll hate me for that and also for forcing him to nap.  I hate to hear him cry. 

Sorry you are feeling so sad and frustrated.  I know the feeling well so don't beat yourself up.  You are a fab mummy.  Look at how you are trying to sort out his routine so he is well rested and happy.  How would he hate you for that.  And its so hard when things are up in the air, its normal to be frustrated but you are doing the best you can to get him onto a routine that works.  Hang in there.  You'll be back on track soon.  {{{hugs}}}


 6. I haven't really tried to extend naps with any method, I am too worried about the OT monster, which is a hysterical, red-faced, dry heaving one that scares the crap out of me.

If he's UT extending prob won't do any good.  We had success extending with ssh-pat and i know others have success with PU/PD but until you get his A time sorted its prob not worth putting all the effort into extending just yet. 


7. He's had signs of teething for months, but no teeth.  I don't know where those guys are
LOL!! This made me laugh!  I blamed teething for all manner of things for months and my LO didnt' get a tooth until 14 months!!! 



So....I think you need to aim to increase your A time and see how it goes.  Remember it takes 5-7 days to see an impact on routine changes so don't be discouraged if 2 days in things are still up in the air.  Give it a few days to make sure you are giving him a chance to get used to the new A times.  Try and start on a day when you know you are going to have a few quiet days at home or arrange outings during A time so you are home for naps most of the time.  This can be adapted once he's settled back into a routine but for the first few days at least its best to try stick to it. 


So a routine like this would be appropriate for his age (I am basing it on 2.5 hours A time but you can adapt as you see necessary):

I have also included three solid meals.  I know you aren't on more than 1/2 in a day but its for future months so you can see how it works.


7am  Wake up and milk feed
8am  Solids (You can offer milk instead/before if he didn't take more than 3oz at 7am)
9.30am  Nap (1.5 hours)  (If he wakes early try to resettle for 10/15 minutes if you can)
11.00am  Wake up and milk feed
(12pm Solids...when introduced)
1.30pm Nap (1.5 hours)
3.00pm Wake up and milk feed
(4pm Solids when introduced)
5.30pm CN (20 minutes/30 minutes at most...to get you through to bedtime.  Most drop CN around this age but you need A time to be at least 3 hours for that to be posssible.  Without it, it is a huge A time to bed and you end up with huge OT)
5.50/6pm  Wake up 
7pm Milk feed
7.15/7.30pm Bed

10/10.30 DF

Possibly ONE night feed and resettle otherwise the way you normally would when you don't offer milk aiming to increase his milk intake through the day and decrease his NWs. 



Thats a lot of info.  Have a read through and let me know have you any questions.  You know him best so you'll know if that seems right to you xx

HTH xx

[afeswick]

Thanks so much for all the info! I am going to try out your suggestions and get back to you in a week!

[Shiv52]

Good luck xx

[Alexa's mummy]

GOOD LUCK!! I'm gonna try some of them too! xx

[afeswick]

So a quick update and a few more questions....

We have successfully transitioned to the medium flow nipples, and as a result, Ethan eats a full 6oz every 4 oz which is fantastic! No more "grazing."  Now, this might be a silly question, but is it possible that Ethan won't recognize when he's full? I ask this because it seems he is eating a lot more now, and sometimes when I go to burp him he spits up (he never did before) like his stomach is too full.  Also, he eats so fast, I wonder if he gives himself time to feel "full."  Tonight, he ate 6oz at 7:30pm and then not even 3 hours later wanted more (he ate 4 more oz but burped some up). 

Also, ONLY at his naps and at night he starts doing the following: crying, moving his hand to his mouth and rubbing it back and forth over it, and biting my fingers really hard.  Now, if he were teething, why would he only notice it at nap time? Or is this his way of fighting sleep? Or still hungry? Its a new action that he's just started, and its throwing me for a loop!

His A times have been gradually extending, so now we are awake for 2h 20 bare minimum, usually 2h 30 or 2h 40, and he has started to go down a bit easier and for longer.

We are still working but I thought I'd let you know that things are starting to turn around, and to thank you again for all your help

[Shiv52]

Wow!!!   What great progress all round!  Well done to you for all the hard work!

Eating:
Thats great about the faster flow nipples!  That has really helped his intake which will help overall!  It could be he's getting used to eating the extra milk and thats whats causing the spit up.  I think babies are generally good at knowing when they are full so I wouldn't worry about overfeeding at this stage.  How about burping him half way through his feed and that will help make room for the extra milk? 

Also, ONLY at his naps and at night he starts doing the following: crying, moving his hand to his mouth and rubbing it back and forth over it, and biting my fingers really hard.  Now, if he were teething, why would he only notice it at nap time? Or is this his way of fighting sleep? Or still hungry? Its a new action that he's just started, and its throwing me for a loop!

It could be teething.  Often during the day they are amused and entertained and distracted and don't really have time to think about their teeth and its only when they lie down and are trying to get comfy and doze over that they realise its annoying them IYSWIM?  you could try some teething gel or whatever you use 10 minutes before sleep time and see does that help?  That way you'll tell if it teething or if not we can work out if its something else.

His A times have been gradually extending, so now we are awake for 2h 20 bare minimum, usually 2h 30 or 2h 40, and he has started to go down a bit easier and for longer.

This is great.  Am thrilled to read it!  And yeah for sleeping longer too!! 

Keep me posted on how you're getting on!!