Please please help me come up with a plan to tackle this mess

[*Liz*]

You all know J is a difficult eater - always has been - very slow to wean due to reflux issues. But very independent and stubborn due to his spirited trait. Refused mushed up/ spoon fed stuff since 12 months etc etc.

I'm honestly at my wits end with it all. There ARE certainly behavioural issues in there - he is fighting something sometimes for sure. He probably hasn't been exposed to enough tastes and textures as a younger LO and now it is harder. We do relax about it, we do try and give him control but TBH it just gets worse really.

Why am I bothered? His weight gain is very poor now - 0.4th centile and will have to be investigated at age 2 if doesn't improve (which I don't want as I'm sure there is nothing major/ physical causing this). And also he is always ill - coughs, colds, sore thoats - and I'm sure his poor diet is contributing here  . He is not in daycare so it is not just that he is surrounded by bugs all the time - Mum has him when I am working.

He can feed with a spoon and a fork completely independently, and does understand the concept of dipping and eating.

Almost all of his food is processed these days as I have just ran out of steam with it all. But I honestly don't know where to start. But things are pretty rough here - refused meals, hunger driven strops etc etc.

I should also add that he is very faddy as well as picky - so he will eat the same thing every night if allowed but sure enough he will get bored of it and then drop it. Then we get hunger for weeks before he picks something else to latch on to iyswim?

I honestly want to cry when I read what others eat 

Here was today

B - Toast with jam (new fad - has insisted on every day for a week now), few shreddies
Then asked for his breakfast again and again - DH gave him the same the second time and told him to pack it in the third time as he was sure he was full and needed to wait and have a snack in a bit.
S - Refused (it was a piece of homemade cake)
L - few bites toast, refused scrambled egg, refused apple, threw yoghurt at DH (after DH tried to encourage him to eat  ) but ate about half first
S - Gave him cream cheese sandwiches, sweetcorn rings and raisins - had 3 bites of sandwich and 3 raisins. Dumped rest on floor when DH asked him why he was trying to walk off with his bowl.
*then had the screaming hunger at 4.30pm - this happens every single day - he screams for food and it doesn't seem to matter whether we give snacks etc or not - but then often refuses his tea if he doesn't fancy it still*
T - few bites of cheese on toast, fish finger, 1 strawberry, a few blueberries and a bit of apple

And has gone to bed hungry again.

What do I do? How can I stop these temper tantrums and improve his range a little. He hasn't eaten unprocessed protein in months, or a single vegetable for that matter. Doesn't eat pasta/ rice etc etc etc.

Sorry for the essay 

[firsttimemummy]

Lots of hugs. My friends LO is a fussy eater too and they find it really frustrating too.  They have found that if they ignore her while she is eating she actually eats a lots better (they tend to hover over her throughout the meal and I think she has realised this and it puts her off eating as she gets more attention when she doesn't eat).

My friend gets so frustrated at making lots of nice meals that her DD then refuses so I suggested she batches of food into really small portions and offer only 1 at a time.  If she is in the mood for that food it doesn't take long to defrost/heat up more in the microwave, and if she doesn't want it, not much food has been wasted.

It can take up to 15 times to get used to a taste.  Also, too much milk can stop them getting hungry too.  It doesn't sound like you are doing it, but my friends are quite obsessed with their DD eating and keep trying to feed her morsels constantly - they don't realise how many little bites they are giving her throughout the day between meals, that must be filling her up.

Is it textures or tastes that your DS doesn't like?  My DS is  a good eater but at times wont eat lumpy food (or other times, pureed food) which I am almost certain is related to teething as it probably hurts him gums with the wrong texture.

[anna*]

I know this isn't much practical help but... I am SURE that Stan is a better eater for going to daycare. He eats stuff there that he won't touch at home, because he looks around and sees all the other kids eating it. Would there be any opportunity to organise a few tea parties with friends with kids who eat well, just so that J can get used to the concept, try a few new things?

[LucySol]

Hey Liz.what would happen if you just stopped giving him what you know he will eat,give him what you have for dinner and leave him to it?Then if he refuses take it away and do the same at the next meal.if you think there is nothing medically wrong then it must be control/stubborness etc.id be inclined to just give him whats to eat and let him be.He WILL eat if he is hungry.
Easy for me to say tho,i know.
im up for a tea party if you fancy it!! only down the road!!

[Mashi]

Liz, we are slowly working our way out of a similar situation as you know.  Not sure if anything that I did was "right" or not, but will share some of the things we did and see if anything can help?

First, no comments on his eating.  My DH is the worst for this and took months of me badgering him to get him to stop.  I actually held a stick of asparagus (which he hates) on my fork and tried to shove it in his clamped mouth while saying "try it. Just try it. Taste it. Just one bite. Just a taste" over and over while he turned his head away and pulled back and shoved my hand out of the way until he finally realised this is no different to what he does to DS.   When there are no comments to DS on his eating he is more content to eat.

We fill him up with breakfast until he doesn't want anymore. It is not uncommon for him to have his cup of milk and bowl of dry cheerios while watching Cbeebies in the morning and then at his "real" breakfast 30 minutes later to have a bowl of cornflakes or shreddies with milk and 4 pieces of toast (with jam, peanut butter or cream cheese, or sometimes a bit of all 3) and half of a banana.  If he asks for more, he gets more.  I also sometimes put a few cut up pieces of deli meat on his tray and he will eat it as well - ham or turkey, for instance.  So if he's asking for a third breakfast, he can have it.

I realise this is a TOTALLY personal thing so just an idea, but when J threw his food cause DH asked him why he was walking off with his bowl, is there a place where J can walk off to and eat it on his own?  ie/ I put a blanket down on the living room floor or put snacks out on DS's little crafts table in the living room so he can eat lunch or snacks there and that way he can play with his toys at the same time.  He eats a lot better this way.  

We have ALWAYS had the 430 meltdowns.  I've noticed in prev posts in the past your feeding times/routines are pretty much the same as mine, complete with the 430 meltdown!  I started doing two afternoon snacks - one when he wakes at 2/230ish from his nap, and then another at 4pm ish.  Pushed dinner to 530, and snack doesn't seem to affect it too much - well, at least he eats better this way than doing one snack at 2/230ish and dinner at 430. I always thought that it was odd he would throw a fit for his meal at 430 and then not want it when he saw what it was, would rather go away hungry and not eat all night.

There are some meals when it is just he and I, and often what happens is that I stand at the counter and am making things as I go or I am playing on the laptop and pop little things on his tray and let him play with a toy car and just sort of do what he wants to do.  I'm all about family meals and believe it's important in child development, but if my boy eats 3 bites at family dinner and an entire meal when he's alone, then once a week eating on his own isn't a bad thing!  I can plop down a whole variety of things that he would not normally eat, but just one bite at a time amongst what he IS eating, and he will just absentmindedly take it.

I am for one meal a day.  One decent meal and the rest doesn't matter. That one meal is RARELY dinner, most often it is breakfast or lunch. I get veggies in as snacks when he is lacking.  We mix a lot of things in dip (zaziki) and he will eat spoonfuls of it, not caring it's it's got chicken, asparagus and rice mixed in it.

I've just gotten up to get a snack and lost my train of thought...I know I had some other ideas but have forgotten. Before we went to England in early April he was eating one meal a WEEK, and now we are at decent meals but limited variety, constantly increasing however. Will be back tomorrow when I remember the other things we did.....

xx

[Shiv52]

{{{hugs Liz}}}

I know this is very frustrating and you've been dealing with it for a long time.  Your post reminded me of a similar post I was on.  Half way through first page you'll notice the LO is refusing to eat all but 2 foods and the suggestions given really helped out here.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=161884.0


I think though this is a more established problem with J and I think you are going to have to decide what is the best way to tackle it and be consistent for a few weeks.  

Personally I would do a few things and stick to it:

1.I wouldn't give a choice of what to eat at this stage nor feed on demand as I think this leads to bigger problems in
    the long term.  I have only recently started offering DD the choice between 2 things (so still very much under my
    control but a bit of independence for her) and I already know in my head what she is having for meals so I don't
    get in to 'I want x, y or z'.   Obviously she can ask for things and of course she gets them on occasion but in
    general we eat what I make and if she doesn't eat it, thats fine but I don't replace it.  

2.  I would offer meals with 3/4 foods (2 you know he eats and 2 either new or foods he used to eat) and it seems  
    like you are pretty much doing that.  I would always have the 2 foods he likes so that he is encouraged to eat
    but is learning to tolerate new/not so preferred foods being there.  I would offer similar portions of the foods but
    not enough of any particular food for him to be full up and not want to try anything else.  I wouldn't offer more of
    any preferred food  (unless all the plate is finished of course!)

3.  I would set meal and snack times and not offer food in between those times

4.  I would just give him meals and then sit and eat too, or have a cuppa and munch toast.  I wouldn't put any
     pressure on him to eat anything or mention it for that matter.  Do you think he's aware it means more to you and
     DH that he eats than it does to him?

5.  I would make meals a certain length of time (you'd know best how long he needs before he generally gets fed up)
    and after that just let him go.  I would leave the meal sitting about for 30 minutes or so and if he requests any
    food you can offer it but after that you just wait until the next meal slot

6.  I would also do what Anna has suggested.  Try on occasion to have lunch with others (if possible) or just change
    it up yourself.  My DD loves when we sit outside to eat breakfast and I've actually got her to try some stuff she's
    never had before and a few times we've had a picnic lunch in her room with her new teaset and she thinks its a
    laugh.  She has also on occasion sat in her booster on the living room floor watching something and that keeps
    her entertained to eat without any major drama!

7.  Its also ok to sometimes just give him a meal of all things he loves in the hope he's encouraged to eat more!  
     Maeve's favourite lunch is cream cheese sandwich, a frube and a humzinger!  


Its really tough when they don't eat.  TBH I've never had a problem until the last 4 weeks, DD is getting teeth and is refusing pretty much everything. I can only imagine how I'd feel if this went on for months on end.  Yesterday refused pancakes and cheese for breakfast, had two bites of cereal.  lunch ate spaghetti hoops and a slice of bread (success but hardly that healthy!).  Dinner.. refused fish and potato and ate about 10 bits of corn.  

Its small consistent steps.  

Is J restrained (can't think of a better word!) during meal times?  I find DD eats much better in her booster with a tray so she can't choose to get up and go off than if I give her food in the living room on the coffee table.  I had got a bit lax about toast etc and have found she'll eat a bit but then get too distracted and just go off and then not want to eat anymore.  

HTH xx

[*Liz*]

I'm going to sound like I am being negative and picking now - but I'm not - I'm genuinely interested in what you say in response so I can work this out in my head.

My friend gets so frustrated at making lots of nice meals that her DD then refuses so I suggested she batches of food into really small portions and offer only 1 at a time.

But what could I make that I can freeze? He doesn't eat ANYTHING like a 'proper' meal at all. The only things on his menu are potato faces, sausages, fish fingers   . He never really ate purees, and never ate lumps at all. Just finger fed solid foods, and was very funny about getting his hands mucky so it was always very dry foods as well. He does eat cut up fruit now, so we have made progress with being willing to handle slimy foods. Or should I just make a few - like fish pie, spag bol etc etc and keep giving them and see if he takes to any of them?

It can take up to 15 times to get used to a taste.  Also, too much milk can stop them getting hungry too.  It doesn't sound like you are doing it, but my friends are quite obsessed with their DD eating and keep trying to feed her morsels constantly - they don't realise how many little bites they are giving her throughout the day between meals, that must be filling her up.

God - I wish it would take 15 times - it if often well over 30 times round here. J does take these things to extremes!! I think we have been guilty of allowing too much grazing in the past - but do have a much more structured approach now. Although that itself is though as I don't want to deprive him if he is genuinely hungry iyswim?

Anna - I have often thought the same - but there is not so much that can be done on that one ATM.

Lucy - I's not sure I could 'starve' him into eating TBH. I think it would just anger him more and I totally agree this is control and stubborness - but it is in a kid who has NEVER eaten. So hard to know if pushing that hard is fair. For example a pasta dish would be totally unfamiliar. I have tried but he has NEVER eaten it.

Mashi - interesting to hear what you have done. DH is similar in a less 'in your face' way. I think a simple ban n food related comments could work though as DH could understand that. He is very willing to try stuff but kind of needs to know how to 'do it right' as he won't find a balance alone.

So J is on a jam and toast craze ATM - would you let your DS eat 3 slices of 'adult peices' of that if he wanted? Its not the toast that bugs me - it is the jam. What of he got down and said he was done and went back into the kitchen 30 mins later asking for more?

I'm not against there being 'somewhere else' he can eat if tha helps. I will think about a picnic cloth as our issue is the beige carpets.

Lots of great ideas for me to think through though ladies - thank-you  

Shiv - I will read your post next 

[Tweakster]

Liz I am offering hugs and following in interest.  I have to agree, Finn has started eating better since daycare so if he could spend some time with other kids who are modeling it really helps.  Finn even uses his sippy at daycare and so now we are finally trading it for the bottle, albeit slowly.

It's very hard, I do think refluxers get a bit of a hard deal with the whole eating thing, and those Spiriteds are really picky about texture - possibly even colour the occupational therapist once said.  It's all trial and error really.

On the flipside of what Shiv has mentioned, we find that Finn eats better when we leave him to it rather than sit there and watch him.  If we are not all eating together he seems to play less and just gets on with it.  When we are all sitting at the table he is pulling stunts to get attention i.e. food on the floor, bang the cup, try to grab everything off the table.  I think there is plenty of time to have dinner as the social event it can be, but sometimes it's just about getting food into these kids.

[*Liz*]

Thanks Shiv   - there are a lot of ideas in there that we have tried and haven't had massive amounts of success - but I guess if that is the case the issue is consistency really.

I think you are right though that this is an established issue and going to be toughto change around. I remember Alexa's post but looking at the time scales between posts there is NO WAY J would respond that fast  .

J is still restrained for meals - he is so tiny and not much of a climber anyway. He often does get distracted and ask to go down though and I always ask if he is finished and he will yell down and I will let him go. I like the 'keep it for 30 mins' though - that could help sometimes.

I do think we need to eat out more - but the rest of the routine/ nap times etc are quite prohibitive to that - and this is probably an area I mucked up on really. As he used to love coming to a cafe when he was a babe but we have not really been since he was a toddler due to nap time.

((hugs)) for the teething refusal. I do know about food refusal. TBH the day I posted today wasn't even that bad - it can get an awful lot worse than that.

[MummyToBen]

Oh hugs Liz...it sounds rough  .  First thing that came to mind is "what approach normally works with J in terms of helping him change his behaviour?".  Basically, because it sounds like much of it is has become a habit - the spirited/wilful streak which I know from Ben - and wondering what approaches you normally take if he is playing up/being stubborn etc?  Are there any ways you could apply the same approaches to his eating?  Is there ANYTHING that has worked when getting him to try new foods etc? (your snack box idea was great!). Because if we know what those things are then maybe we can help you to build on them - you're the one who is 'J Expert'  . 

But what could I make that I can freeze? He doesn't eat ANYTHING like a 'proper' meal at all. The only things on his menu are potato faces, sausages, fish fingers  . He never really ate purees, and never ate lumps at all. Just finger fed solid foods, and was very funny about getting his hands mucky so it was always very dry foods as well. He does eat cut up fruit now, so we have made progress with being willing to handle slimy foods. Or should I just make a few - like fish pie, spag bol etc etc and keep giving them and see if he takes to any of them?

Yes!  I would just make and freeze small portions of loads of stuff like this and just keep offering them. If he had a little ramekin of fish pie/spag bol and along side it had a small handful of sweetcorn, and a couple of chunks of cheese, then do you think he would try the different bits? Have you read any of annabel karmel's stuff?  There are some good ideas for meals for this age that I wouldn't have thought of making, lots of which are nice for adults too so if J refuses them consistently at least you and DH can eat them  .   Are you stuck for ideas for finger foods, or is it that you've tried *everything* and he just doesn't like them? We did 'baby led weaning' so Ben never had purees or lumpy baby foods - just straight to things he could pick up and eat himself, so it is possible for them to get a balanced diet with just finger foods if that's what J prefers.  You could even spread bolognaise/fish pie on toast if he would eat it that way. Sounds gross, but it might get him used to the taste of different foods if he can have it on something he already likes.

So J is on a jam and toast craze ATM - would you let your DS eat 3 slices of 'adult peices' of that if he wanted? Its not the toast that bugs me - it is the jam. What of he got down and said he was done and went back into the kitchen 30 mins later asking for more?

In terms of the jam on toast, is there anything you can spread on it (like banana with a bit of jam) that he might start to go for?  Even if you started with a bit of banana and normal amount of jam, and then gradually decrease the jam?  Or even some peanut butter would at least add some protein if he's go for it?  (If he's seriously into toast at the moment, then would you consider getting a bread maker - you can make bread with no salt and then it's less of an issue how much he eats.  At least he is eating *something* while you are working on getting a more varied diet into him.)     

I do think we need to eat out more - but the rest of the routine/ nap times etc are quite prohibitive to that - and this is probably an area I mucked up on really. As he used to love coming to a cafe when he was a babe but we have not really been since he was a toddler due to nap time.

Could your Mum take him out when she's looking after him for a while?  Even if it's not at a specific meal time, just going out for a snack and to try some different food in a new environment might be good? 

Hugs Liz, you are doing so well!  I don't have the same issue with Ben's eating, but he is so wilful and stubborn (apparently I was the same  ) that I can imagine how hard it must be to tackle this with J (((((((())))))))
 

[brenda2]

i agree with a lot that's been said...some good ideas.  we had a great eater and now she's turned into a really picky eater so we have had to be more creative with meal times and with meals in general to find something she will eat.  for example she used to eat pasta and now has completely stopped and says she doesn't like pasta.  she will eat black olives, but not pasta    ketchup (by the bucket) but not tomato sauce.  i don't get it....

dd2 also usually has her best meal at breakfast time and doesn't eat so well at dinner.  if she asked for 3 pieces of toast at breakfast i would give it to her.  sometimes she eats the most for one of her snacks.  to get her to eat more for dinner we have actually given a later snack and moved dinner later.  if i do dinner at 5 pm she screams that she doesn't want to come to the table.  so she has a snack at 3:30 or 4 and dinner is around 5:30 or 6, tonight we all had dinner at 6 and she refused to eat anything until 6:45 and then she finished her plate. 

for the toast i agree with pp.  maybe find something else he would eat on the toast, like creamcheese, peanutbutter (if you are giving that to him yet), ricotta cheese, ricotta cheese with honey, peanutbutter and banana, nutella, blueberry sauce (blueberries and cornstarch, bit of sugar only - cooked on the stove).  would he eat a pizza melt - toast with tomato sauce and melted cheese?  or a tuna melt?  if you got HIM to put the tuna and cheese on the toast and help put it in the oven etc would he eat it then?  if you do make the bread you can put all kinds of things into it like cheese and fruits/raisins/craisins and nuts/seeds that would make it more nutritious.  could you make a face on his toast - raisin toast spread with creamcheese and grape eyes, blueberry nose, strawberry mouth, shredded cheddar cheese hair?

some casserole type things i make and freeze for dd that are succesful are (if you are looking for ideas): shepards pie (this is the favorite right now), baked beans, chicken and rice casserole, chicken vegetable and pasta casserole, eggplant parmesan. 

if he likes fish sticks have you tried just baked fish with whatever sauce?  dd is really into ketchup and i can get her to eat just about anything if there is ketchup involved.  granted we go through a lot of ketchup but at least she is eating something.  the other day she dipped her kiwi in ketchup ewwww.

if it's texture could you try different cooking methods for some foods he usually doesn't like?  for example dd will only eat carrots if they are baby carrots and cooked quite a lot.  she will not eat them raw or even crisply cooked (which is how i like them).  she loves carrots but only if they are cooked the way she likes them.  ditto for asparagus and broccoli, only soft and only if it has butter on it.

i also think eating with other kids is a great idea.  and you might get some new ideas for meals too, we all get into a rut sometimes and he sounds like a difficult one with his food preferences, so that's not helping.

hugs, it's hard when they won't eat - i'm finding her new food aversions really frustrating too.  it's hard enough to come up with a meal plan and cook a meal and then if she won't eat it it's maddening!  anyway, hope something in there helps.

[Mashi]

iz, yes we do give him 3 slices of adult toast if he wants it - bread slices are a bit smaller here than say a slice of Warburton's but I give it to him.  I buy the lowest sugar jam I can find and it is spread on there so thinly that it is almost impossible to do.  Sometimes I smear yogurt on it instead, but he will sometimes take peanut butter and loves cream cheese. 

I was also worried about the "starving him out" - not sure if you remember my post on it about mid-March?   I think it took about 3 weeks before we noticed a HUGE difference.  Not like he now sits and eats everything we offer, but he will try about 75% of what I offer now where before it was like....I dunno, none?!  I find set backs happen VERY fast. For instance on Saturday night I made smoked salmon pasta which he would not go near, and I suspect he didn't like the smell of it.  So my way is offering and when he says no, putting it down, letting him get on with whatever he's going to do (smush peas on his tray, etc) and ignore the pasta.  But, DH offered it (nicely I will admit) about 6-8 times.  I was FUMING mad.  By the billionth time DS was pretty bothered as well and slapped it away and started throwing food (I don't blame him).  So then last night we had chicken which he will normally at least taste and he freaked and wanted nothing to do with it - I feel this is a carry over from the night before as we have not had that behaviour in a long time. I think the simplest little "pressures" are really felt by them and it becomes a battle of wills. The shrugs and not caring are MUCH better. 

Does that make sense?

[Roseii]

(((hugs))) Liz, as you know food isn't exactly an issue with DD *But* she is getting fussier and more stubborn at meal times and like with Mini-Mashi, the more I (or DH) try and "encourage" her to eat, the worse it is, and this is from a child who eats like a horse and will try virtually anything. And it drives me MAD when DH thinks the way to deal with it is to keep insisting she "try it"  She has recently started throwing a fit at breakfast time, when she always loved weetabix with berries such as strawberries/blueberries/raspberries in. Wouldn't eat a bite of it. This was totally unchartered territory for me. Sleep problems I am used to dealing with: food? No! Anyway for 2 days I totally gave up on the weetabix and berries, offered toast, banana, pancakes...She didn't want any of it. Last 2 days I just gave her the exact same thing as usual (weetabix and berries) Forced (!) her into highchair, left it in front of her and walked away, totally ignored her, and she has eaten it.

Sorry I know this is hardly groundbreaking stuff, but if it helps at all, even the very best of eaters can suddenly turn into little terrors!! 

Does it help at all if you eat at the same time as J, just ignoring what he is doing, but happily munching away on your food?

x

[Mashi]

Thought of another thing we did.....basically I went SLOWLY and made the tiniest changes, sort of applying a "GW" approach to eating.  So DS was on a kick and only ate toast and strawberry jam for breakfast every single day for about 2 months.  I offered cereal and he hated it and cried for his toast...the thing is that I knew he liked cereal as he'd happily lap it up when it was mine, but he bleched it right out and screamed for his toast so I knew it was habit, really.  I changed to peach jam, he wouldn't even go near it...didn't look the same.  So, switched to raspberry jam, and because we use so little, he saw the red, and just went about eating it with no fuss. Got used to the different taste.  Changed to rye bread - again he loves rye bread and has it for lunch but bkfst is on white so he was not happy.  I started putting one triangle of rye down WITH his white toast and he was fine.  Added a it of peach jam under the raspberry, then more peach less raspberry and over the course of about a month he was eating rye toast with peach jam for breakfast. Now I can hold up two loaves of bread and let him choose, and two colours of jam and let him choose.  Took a month, but he's there.  And then I started swapping out toast for cereal every other day, and did the same type of thing with cereal and there are now 4 kinds of cereal he will eat -- so he has a few more breakfast options rather than just the same white toast with strawb jam.

Did the same for a few things at dinner as well...so if J only likes fish sticks then make the subtlest change to his fish sticks - not sure what, perhaps grate some parmasean cheese on them, or cook them with a bit of fresh parsley or dill sprinkled on or something very minor, but make sure that same change is done every time.  Once he finally eats them again (cause he may refuse them the first x times) increase the quantity just to chage the flavour a bit...it helps open up their taste buds and realise that different is okay it just takes a while to get used to it.  I did the same with dip - he would only eat zaziki.  I switched to quark with the same garlic and cucumber flavour as zaziki and then when he finally got used to it, switched quark flavours to onion and herb, and so on.

Which reminds me, got to get some ziki on the table as we are having a dinner he hates tonight.... Back later!

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

I just managed to skim through the above posts. And here are a few things that I thought.
Try and limit snacks or seconds and 3rds for brekkie,  Could you make cereal the main brekkie meal, even if its shreddies and then let him have toast? As someone mentioned one good meal a day is great, it doesnt have to be dinner, we do a big brekkie here.
Limit milk drinks, but seems like he is  not drinking much milk anyway.
Seeing as he likes toast could you try him with toasted sandwiches in the sandwich maker? We can sometimes sneak one into ds, tiny bit of finely chopped ham and tiny bit of grated cheddar.
I think if he is really starving at 4.30 then I would try and do dinner for him then, even if its just for a while and it may get him into eating.
Then you could do supper before bed time of whatever he fancies so he is not going to bed hungry.
Please do try taking him out to eat, these are the occasions when ds decided to add 3 new things to his strict diet.

Ds is a very fussy eater and has been since he was about 14 months old.
His main diet consists of weetabix for breakfast ( 2 of them) followed by toast and butter if he wants or some dry cereal, cornflakes, fitness .
1 biscuit ( small) and small milk mid morning.
Lunch is touch and go, sometimes he willl eat sometimes not, if he does its usually bread and butter or dry cereal, yogurt if we can find his particular expensive brand in the shops, it hasnt been available in weeks, he asks for it but is ok when I say we dont have it.
Afternoon snack, cracker and butter and tiny drink milk.
Dinner Weetabix (2)

This has been his diet now for almost 2 years. Very occasionally he will have a toasted sandwich.
But as in the last 6 months we started taking the kids out for an early dinner on Fridays, ds has added 3 things to his diet, hot dogs ( processed) but at least its something different, calamari in batter baked in the oven, he loves them, and pizza (not frozen but fresh).
He has also added apple juice but we give it rarely and the only veg he will eat is corn on the cob when we have a bbq.

My son is very healthy and has no weight issues, yes it does annoy me that he wont eat more, we often eat together, he sees his sister eating with him and we offer every single day. I cant make him eat it, but can only encourage and try to help him by offering every day, it would be easy not to.  I also chose not to go down the "well if you dont it you can go to bed hungry" but only within reason and on nights when he has absolutely refused to eat I just let him go. No fuss around meal times.

Sorry for my essay, but as you can see we have very similar issues

PS My son would be a junk monster if he was let, he can recognise a treat is a treat even if he has never seen it before, so we are vigilant with goodies.