Please please help me come up with a plan to tackle this mess

[Shiv52]

Hey Liz

Just wanted to send this link to this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Just-Take-Bite-Effective-Challenges/dp/1932565124

Prob not worth buying but if you can get it from the library a few of the chapters are worth a read.  I used it alot in work when designing eating programmes for LOs who were limiting themselves and mealtimes were a nightmare for their parents. 

In my experience it does get better with consistency once you decide on a plan.  The main thing though is to keep mealtimes short and sweet and NO mention of the eating or encouraging especially where there is any element of control on a LOs part. 

I used to work with a little guy who when he came to me at 4 he only ate smiley faces and bikers crisps and drank ribena.  Nothing else for over a year.  He had previously ate lots of different stuff but it tapered off as he got older.  His parents though were afraid of him starving so just let him eat those.  It took a while (and we had to do a much more structured approach to food tolerance....so starting with touching food, lifting it, put to lips, bite, in mouth then finally eat rather than just present meals and let him decide whether or not to eat).  But after 6 weeks he was eating dry cereal, yogurt, raisins, different crisps, chocolate, plain biscuits, toast, pancakes, chicken nuggets, chips, grapes, banana.  Just wanted to reassure you that it can work. J obviously isn't any where near this little guys stage of resistance and hopefully just putting some measures in place really will make a difference for him. 

I like Mashi's approach too though so am torn as to what is the best approach for J.  If it is a mealtime and he asks for more toast I would prob give it but not half an hour after the meal is over.  At that stage I'd wait for the next meal and just give whatever you had planned on.  And it depends on whether J would try things for you if you asked.  How do you think he would respond to that?  Its a great way to get them to realise they like something but some LOs just won't go for it. 

{{{hugs}}} 

[*Liz*]

Thanks so much again ladies - some really great points here.

What works with J with other stuff is time, consistency, distraction and ignoring bad behaviour and praising good. So a great point Claire - I just need to work out how to apply a lot of this to Jacob's eating as I guess the main difference here is that he genuinely is in control whereas with other things I still have a degree of parental control iyswim?

Thanks for the hugs Charli - food battles are tough - but we did genuinely abandon them quite a while ago and very much do the 'if he eats it fine, otherwise out' approach - but still he seems to find something to fight us over.

Mashi - I've often though of a GW type approach but never really done it. I need to work out what food type I am trying to turn into what first - but yes - I'm sure that might work. I would be happier if the jam was on wholegrain toast, not white for example.

Thank-you for posting Fiona - it really does help a lot to hear that there are other out there who struggle as well. I know that sounds wrong - but often I feel like we are the only ones iyswim? I do need to put some effort back in - that is also part of my issue - that I got fed up of it and stopped making and trying.

Shiv - I think the 30 min rule is sensible and that is what I think we will aim too. I think I can otherwise distract him until a meal or snack time as long as we can go out and do something. I mean - he can always have a nice drink instead  .

Would J try new things if I asked? No - I don't think so - he would just say nah nah and cry and shake his head. But he will handle new foods during food preparation as he loves messing about with stuff like that - and he will often try if no-one is looking. He will also help himelf to things off other peoples plates sometimes - other times he will play about with a fork in it but never eat - but I guess this is OK at this stage as well?

DH agrees no comments over the eating as well so I think that may help  But what should we do if he signs and says yum yum? Agree with him or ignore that as well? He often does that with a meal that he then doesn't eat - very odd!!

The other thing he will do is talk and sign about his meal while eating it - so might say 'no no sausages' and 'no no cake' - which means 'it isn't sausages or cake'. I usually join in this conversation as it doesn't seem to have any bearing on whether he eats it or not. Do you think that is OK? I mean - as long as it isn't commenting on HIM eating? The other thing he does is sign 'no no pigs' meaning his meal is not for piggies - he often runs through an entire flippin' farmyard before eating anything  . But again I sort of see this as just meal time converstion/ ritual with him and am thinking it is OK as long as again there are no comments on HIS eating?

Actually we took him out for dinner this lunchtime for the first time in MONTHS as I decided a late nap wouldn't kill him for once (and it hasn't but he hasn't handled it THAT well  ). Anyway we all had sunday lunch stuff and he ate quite a bit - seemed to prefer it if he saw it come off somones plate thoug rather than the bits in front of him - but he had boiled potato, roast potato, turkey in gravy, a slice of carrot, a bite of yorkshire pudding, 2 bites of a stuffing ball that he helped himself too and declared 'ball' with delight, licked a bean then decided against it, and chewed a peice of sweetcorn and then spat it out. Not bad I though  - not enough to really fill him up though but a really great attempt. Kind of proves I really need to 'mix it up' though, doesn't it?

[Mashi]

Mashi - I've often though of a GW type approach but never really done it. I need to work out what food type I am trying to turn into what first - but yes - I'm sure that might work. I would be happier if the jam was on wholegrain toast, not white for example.

Often I don't think so much of what I can turn something into, but jsut hwo can I alter it ever so slightly so that it has a wee different taste - so perhaps adding some herbs to something, iyswim. Like can you add a bit of garlic powder to a potato face, will still be the same food and same look but have a different taste and it is a way to expand his tastebuds.  But just teeny tiny things and not too many at once or it will overwhelm him - my experience this leads to meltdown and less trust with food.

DH agrees no comments over the eating as well so I think that may help  But what should we do if he signs and says yum yum? Agree with him or ignore that as well? He often does that with a meal that he then doesn't eat - very odd!!

The other thing he will do is talk and sign about his meal while eating it - so might say 'no no sausages' and 'no no cake' - which means 'it isn't sausages or cake'. I usually join in this conversation as it doesn't seem to have any bearing on whether he eats it or not. Do you think that is OK? I mean - as long as it isn't commenting on HIM eating? The other thing he does is sign 'no no pigs' meaning his meal is not for piggies - he often runs through an entire flippin' farmyard before eating anything  . But again I sort of see this as just meal time converstion/ ritual with him and am thinking it is OK as long as again there are no comments on HIS eating?

Aw, Liz, that's got to be one of the cutest things ever!!! We do discuss things like this at the table...so for us it is counting, though DS doesn't talk he only grunts so counting is "uh uh uh uh" as he points to his peas....so we will say "yes, there's four peas, 1 2 3 4" but not anything like "Oh yes, let's eat those 4 peas" so I guess I would approach that with "that's right, it's not sausages, it's chicken!" or "you're right it's not for piggies!" but leave them at that. 

Actually we took him out for dinner this lunchtime for the first time in MONTHS as I decided a late nap wouldn't kill him for once (and it hasn't but he hasn't handled it THAT well  ). Anyway we all had sunday lunch stuff and he ate quite a bit - seemed to prefer it if he saw it come off somones plate thoug rather than the bits in front of him - but he had boiled potato, roast potato, turkey in gravy, a slice of carrot, a bite of yorkshire pudding, 2 bites of a stuffing ball that he helped himself too and declared 'ball' with delight, licked a bean then decided against it, and chewed a peice of sweetcorn and then spat it out. Not bad I though  - not enough to really fill him up though but a really great attempt. Kind of proves I really need to 'mix it up' though, doesn't it?

I have stopped looking at what gets consumed so much and focused on DS's attitude towards the food to find my victories. So licking a bean and then deciding against it and putting it down nicely -- that's a huge victory in my books and I would have been thrilled with the entire meal over that.  Without making a big deal of it in front of DS!  And once I started taking that attitude towards meals, I think DS noticed and his tone changed as well. So instead of saying "oh, did you like that bean? Do you want another?" and so on, just letting him lick it and put it down and never commenting on it....and to him it means there is no one watching him and so he is not as self conscious about it and thus more willing to do it again.  Does that make sense?

We've also gone back to letting him play with his food. So one night he just didn't want to eat whatever it was, but he had never seen it before (wish I could remember what it was) and touched it and played with it and smeared it on his tray, licked his fingers a few times, put it in his mouth several times and spat it out, but was willing to put it in his mouth again and again, swallowing a few bites but not many. I just chose to allow the playing with it thinking of the way we approached it when he was 6-12ish months old, and let him get used to it. While recently we've been more of an "eat it or get down from your chair" type attitude and the playing with it let him get familiar with it and I was surprised at how many times he was willing to put it in his mouth in one meal. 

xx

[anna*]

Yay that is a FAB lunch! (((hugs))) Stan is a pretty good eater but will still generally decide against beans sounds like you have some really great ideas to try out.

[Shiv52]

I'd have been really pleased with that lunch! Good boy J! 

I would chat away to him during meals if he's making conversation, absolutely!

I also would let him try things off your plate if he wants.  Maeve has started eating a lot of new foods that way.  In fact tonight we had chicken, beans and mash.  Ate her beans and then said 'have enough, out' so fine but then came over to me and said 'yum mummy's chicken' and ate it.  WEIRD toddler behaviour! 

[~*Nicole*~]

Liz-You've gotten SO many great suggestions. After reading his delight with the "ball" at lunch I thought that perhaps you'd have some luck making fun things to eat...so maybe fun shapes....I wonder if using a cookie cutter and using an icing dispenser thingy but having dips/ketchup type things on hand to put in there to give hair or eyes to food....would interest him??? Also, after today's lunch, I'd take him out to eat more often LOL.

I've also found that Ava likes things of different temperatures. For example, she seems to love eating frozen spinach. I think it's gross but she asks for it often. Whereas she wasn't much of a fan of cooked spinach unless it was chapped very small and in something else. So maybe letting him have small pieces of veggies straight from the freezer? She loves that it's like ice. Not sure if he likes ice pops or ice cream or anything but I wonder if trying to freeze juices or even making a milkshake would interest him? Maybe then you can figure out how to sneak in extra protein/calories.

Or maybe like the ladies said, adding things to the toast or the potato faces. You could probably make a cream cheese sandwich out of potato faces...or something like that.

So sorry his eating is such a struggle. I hope you can get a handle on it without a ton of stressing out.

*hugs*

[MLK]

If he eats well at breakfast what if you made that his main meal? eg give him his tost, slathered with butter (real butter fro the vitamin A) and the thinnest smear of jam. Serve some eggswith it. If he asks for more toast you could request him to eat a spoonful of eggs first. Won't do it, fine, meal is over. Just try again next meal.

We like to eat our main meal at dinner but for toddlers that is often the worst time of the day, so breakfast is good or lunch as long as it's not too close to naptime. Dinner can just be healthy snacks.

[Mashi]

I have also noticed taking the focus off of dinner has been a big help.  Doesn't change what he WILL eat in terms of specific items (ie/ this boy is not going to eat an egg at any meal of the day, even when I have slathered it in Nutella... )  but at breakfast he will eat bits of cheese and deli meats with his toast, a few bites of peas, etc. Baked beans and soup at lunch, etc, and at dinner I let him do as he pleases, kwim?

[MLK]

Had a thought - what about French toast (bread dipped in egg and fried) with butter and jam? Would he go for that? Alongside his "normal" toast of course.

I'm also wondering if he might do better if meals were served "asian style" with bowls of food brought out to the table and everyone gets a bit of everything in their bowl.

[~*Nicole*~]

MLK-I've been to a "family style" restaurant where they do that rather than each individual person being served their dinner on a plate....empty bowls/plates and then bowls or trays of the choices in the middle and everyone gets some.

[Mrs Coops]

~~~~Hugs Liz~~~~

I knew J was a fussy eater but I didn't realise just how rough a time you were having! As you know S is like Charli's LO and eats anything but we've also started to notice her becoming choosy! It's only with breakfast at the moment so we're just giving her something different everyday!

I know you said you gave him sweetcorn rings (what are they) but have you tried corn on the cob? S loves gnawing away on it!

What about helping with cooking, let him watch what you're doing or play chopping things up. I saw a TV program where it was suggested they try and change where the toddler ate so bought a little table and chairs for them to sit at. My child minder has the cutest toddler sized picnic bench for the kids and they love eating at it together!

I hope things get easier soon. xxx

[*Liz*]

Thanks Marsha - a lot of the time I am able to accept that is 'is what it is' mainly as it has always been bad iyswim?.

Sweetcorn rings are just those organix snack things  . Nothing very exciting or beneficial at all!

I actually brought a little toddler table for the garden recently and we will try feeding him there as soon as the weather looks up again.

We have seen a pattern though where DH is winding him up at the weekend, and then me and my Mum sort him out during the week, and then the cycle repeats. (Sound familar Mashi  ?).

J is more likely to eat new things off our plates and that is something we do allow him to do - even if it essentially just 'food play' (as long as it is explorative play).

Food preperation is a really odd thing with J. He LOVES it - is totally enthralled. Will point at things, handle them, and smell them etc. But still doesn't eat any himself. Will just try and feed it to whoever he perceives it is for (he is big on whose dinner is whose as well - bird seeds for birds - dog food for puppy - blue mug for Daddy etc).

Slow and steady for us with this one, I think.

[Mom to M&M]

Liz, not sure if you've seen any of my posts back from when DD was a toddler but she was SUPER picky - largely related (I think) to her reflux/texture issues. Finally around two years of age we started to make a lot of progress and by 2.5 I was no longer cooking her separate meals and today she's a really good eater! I think it was largely time - she did it when she was ready - and that I refused to give in and let it become a longer standing problem (I have a niece that eats almost nothing but fruit, cereal and chicken nuggets and it drives me nuts).

Have you ever considered seeing a feeding specialist? We almost went that route but then DD started eating first!

[*Liz*]

J has been under the feeding team since he was 6 mths old - but TBH they are little help - ideas that don't work for increasing calories etc etc.

But in terms of the mechanics of eating they are happy that he can tolerate all textures (which he can - but prefers dry food - and doesn't like chopped up/ lumpy type stuff) and that if he is an independent eater (which he is - has refused to be fed by anyone since he was about 10 months) then there is little more that can be done  .

But it is the reflux which initally triggered all of this - and it is reassuring to hear from someone who came out of the other side eventually  .

[Mom to M&M]

Marisa was totally that way - WAY preferred dry food, not lumpy, etc. Last night for dinner she ate miso glazed cod, roasted broccoli and some sweet potato fries (she still refuses the mashed potatoes the rest of us ate).