7 mo old with 6 - 7 NWs every night. Getting desperate for help

[gogomama]

Hi there!

I just read this thread and posted one similar a few days ago. I think it must be the age bc my DS is doing the same types of things!! He was sleeping through fairly well then about five days ago bam, he just started waking up 2, 3 now 4 times a nite. Like Jamie mentioned, he likes to "practice his skills" in the night and as soon as he gets out of my arms goes straight into the crawling position and proceeds to roll and head plant all around the bed. would be cute, but not at 3 am! I found that he only goes back to sleep in my arms, like a human swaddle. When I try the shush/pat he just moves around. You guys posted some great advices. I'm curious to know what the progress is on any of them? Did increasing the A time work? My DS also averages abt 3 hrs A time, but normally with a little longer at night. Last nite I tried an earlier bedtime and he was up for almost an hour, bringing it back to the original time. Also, I thought teething was the issue, but parecetamol before bed doesn't seem to stop the wakes. Thanks for starting the thread, its great to know other moms going thru the same things..Looking forward to your responses.

[Lewa]

Thought I'd give a quick update on how DS is doing.  He is STTN now!  I think teething had a lot to do with it, but I had to reintroduce sleep cues and be quite strict about what happens at bed time.  I took over ALL sleep duty (hubbie was very gratefull!) till we got back on track so there was no confusion.  Our routine is now:
- Solids first (about 30 mins after wake up)
- Bottle about 20 mins before sleep
- A time is still around 3 hours
Sleep Routine:
- 10 mins before bed time we read a book in the lounge room (don't want DS to wake up and see the books, chair and think I'll come in and read to him)
- Hugs and kisses for hubbie if at home
- Into DS's room, into a sleep bag (I now put him in one for naps as well as night sleep)
- In my arms standing next to cot I sing Twinkle Twinkle twice and give him a big hug and kiss
- Put him in the cot, say goodnight and walk out
He cried a few times when I first walked out, so I would go in and just say goodnight and pat, then walk out again - surprisingly how quickly he progressed to falling asleep as I closed the door on the way out (just 3 days!!)

The biggest change was the amount of food he now eats!  I was giving a bottle first then solids after, but since I swapped it around he now eats about 200g or more at each meal (eg for breakfast he eats 2 weetbix and a banana).  He is a big boy and very active though, so I think this is on the high side!  He may have been hungry at night, so you might want to check solid intake is enough firstimemama.

Hope this helps

Lewa

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Lewa, I am so thrilled for your success. It gives me hope and encouragement.

I, on the otherhand, not doing so great.  Had a few weeks where DS was sttn after his bottom two teeth came up, but after that short run, he's back on his multiple NWs again. Last night, he was up every 45 min to 1 hour from 7:00PM until 1:00AM, then at 1:00, he was up for nearly 1.5 hours, crying if I laid him down in his crib, but babbling/talking to me if I picked him up. So, I gave him so tylenol, just in case it was teeth, and against my instincts, I bf him because I was so tired by then. He took a full feeding, but was still awake after bf, but fell asleep after rocking from 2:30 until 5:15 in the morning. Not sure if he fell asleep because of bf or because of pain meds.

I am honestly stumped and baffled at this point what the problem is. I don't know if it is teeth. He is drooling and chewing on everything, but at the same time, he always does that. I don't know if it's hunger, either. His appetite has been low lately. Refusing solids so I actually have to bf first then give solids after. But, overall solid quantity has gone down. I always offer solids first, but he doesn't always want it first. I don't know if in this case low appetite might also be linked to teeth, which might be also linked to NWs due to hunger? The usual pattern is that he wakes every hour all night until I give him bf, then he usually will finally give me one longer sleep stretch after bf. But, I'm reluctant to bf at night because I don't want to start another prop, if its not hunger. . .but then again, what if it is?? The strange thing is... if it's hunger... he shouldn't be waking up every hour for hunger at 8:30 PM when he JUST had bm and dinner at 6:30, right? 

He's also not putting himself to sleep on his own for naps anymore. He knows how to do independent sleep. Lately, though, it's always cry, and always loud, and always seem to be an "I need you" cry. But, I'm also wondering if this cry is because he's in pain or discomfort or if his cry is because I'm becoming a human prop.

I can't seem to correlate it to routine, either. I see no connection between when he sttn and when he doesn't. His routine is the same. 3 hr A time +/- 30 minutes, depending on the day. Two naps. (naps are inconsistent, but he will either give me a perfect nap schedule with two 1.5-2 hour ones, OR he'll do 45 minute catnap in the morning then gives me a real power 2.5-3 hour nap in the afternoon.) The inconsistency with naps have to do with my daily life, and DD1s daily activities during the week, and not so much to do with him. If we are at home, I always try to extend morning nap if it's short. But most times, he gives me 1.5 hour morning nap.

So troubled, baffled, confused...

[Lewa]

Hi Emma-Rose's Mom, wow that is not good!  It must be something about the age - speaking to the other mum's in our mother's group and everyone is having issues!  It sounds like it could be more than one thing, so one night it might be his teeth, the next hunger, the next night prop dependancy....which makes it soooo hard to fix! 

Don't know if it is the best thing to do, but I just gave DS meds 20 mins before night sleep every night, regardless of if his teeth seemed to be bothering him or not (he cut 5 over 4 weeks though).  Of course I only did it for a week and a half as you can't do that forever!  That seemed to help a lot.  Also I think I was going to see him too quickly.  I started to wait 5 minutes from when he started crying before going in, of course listening to the cry to make sure he wasn't really distressed.  You'd be amazed how many times he just stopped crying!  I don't think it was CIO as I made sure the cry was just the demanding one, not the upset/hurt/hungry etc cry - hard to differentiate initially but you can pick it out. 

If his solids have decreased, he may be hungry (although as you say, there seems to be another issue for him to wake every hour).  Is there a particular food that he will always eat?  DS LOVES yoghurt, so I dip the every spoonfull of food in yoghurt which helps.

Ohh, gotta go - DS is asking for more attention

Good luck, I hope things turn around soon.  Keep as updated.

[gogomama]

Hi Emma Rose's mom,

We are going through a similar thing over here. Last week we had a whole series of nite wakes with one right around 1am that lasted from 1-2 hours on average. I tried tweaking the A times, earlier bedtimes, parecetamol and BF to get him back to sleep. Then after about a week, he just stopped. He will still wake for a few minutes in the night but now goes back to sleep fairly quick. The only conclusion that I can draw is that his teeth were giving him a lot of pain (still no teeth btw) and that the first couple of nights totally threw his schedule out of whack, leaving him tired during the day and taking longer naps and trying to play catch up on his sleep. I think Lewa makes some good points with not going in right away and maybe giving some meds before bed. I do think tho that it can be attributed to the teething and maybe will stop (hopefully) after a few days, so as exhausting as it is try and be patient and make sure that dreaded OT monster doesn't come

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Thanks, ladies. It helps to get feedback. You rock. I'm always grateful for this site, just to get the views of other moms and get some help or at least a place to vent frustrations. kwim?

Well, things went much better yesterday. It's so weird how DS can change without a glitch. All of a sudden, his appetite went way up yesterday so he actually ate solids before bf. And he only had 1 wake-up at 4AM, and he was HUNGRY! Emptied me completely and still wanted more. But, he went down after the 4AM feed and slept-in, even, until 6:30. He even laid down for his nap today without any rocking. Back to my "good/normal" baby. I didn't do anything differently than what I normally do... so, what prompted the change? who knows? I'm convinced he's in control over me and that he changes the rules just to keep me on my feet! lol! But, tonight might be a totally different story. I'm constantly wondering which boy I'm going to get. I'm thinking there must be something going on that's outside of my routine... teething, tummy ache, allergies, some kind of pain... (btw, I never mentioned, he is ALWAYS constipated, and he has prunes everyday, and even with that, he only poops 1x, at the most 2x per week). Anyway, he woke this morning, congested, and I'm now wondering, did he have a cold and I never knew? or suffering from allergies? (it is that season...) Flip the coin and see what creature reveals itself tonight, I guess.

[Emma-Rose's mom]

So, here's and update... Still have 3 - 5 NWs, BUT, I think we are on the turn-around. (Let's hope, anyway) 

DS is eating a lot again. Appetite has gone up. He's also been going down for ALL naps and night sleep independently for the past five days, which is back to the way things used to be. I did have to go back to "sleep-training" mode, though. Realized that with the NWs, I had started to AP more and more and gave DS less and less opportunities to sleep on his own. Plus, DH has even more of a tendency to AP to sleep. In fact, he has never let DS go to sleep on his own. So, like Lewa, I had to take over sleep duty for the past week, just so DS can get some consistency with the wind-down routine. But after a few days, DS is sleeping independently, although the NWs are still there. I am hoping that this change will somehow help to improve the NWs in the near future.

I also started a sleep diary, recording daily activities, A times, developmental and physical milestones... I am noticing that there is some correlation to developmental milestones and sleep disruption. The other times he had major sleep issues were either due to teeth or when he was learning to roll over. Now, he is within days of learning to crawl. Has been on all fours, rocking back and forth and lunging forwards to get around. He is even "practicing" on me when he wakes in the middle of the night. He pushes against my body when I pick him up, as if he's putting himself into that crawl position. So, I had to do some serious Pu/Pd to get him back to sleep and to stop this, since 2:00 AM in the morning is NOT the time I want him to be practicing his new-found skills, on my body, no less.  So, it's been pu when he cries, and pd when he starts to push against me. He's too heavy for me to hold him when he's squirming around like that in my arms, anyway. But, eventually after 20 minutes of pu/pd he has been settling himself in the crib and back to sleep. I just have to be patient since I am so tempted to just get frustrated and AP again, especially when I am so tired at night and want to crawl back to my own bed. The last thing I want to do is sleep train. But, I have to remember, in the long run, I don't want to have my hands full of a HEAVY 1-year old who still needs to be rocked and bounced to sleep.

Okay, fingers crossed that the NWs stop soon.

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Thanks, Jane for the link. I have both of Tracy's book, and I remember reading that, but I needed a refresher.

Well, had a fabulous night last night. DS slept 11 hours last night, and no NWs!!!!!  (For icing on the cake, 2 year old DD did the same... no crying out for water or pee breaks.)

I hope this is just the first of many nights to come. Or tonight may bring me the same old child with sleep problems... never seem to know which creature will show it's head. But, good to celebrate the small victories, and last night was a big one.

Well it's once in a blue moon that both kids sleep all night, right?

[Emma-Rose's mom]

In heaven! Four nights in a row, DS has sttn. And for the added bonus, DD has also been sttn as well! Well, DD usually does, but lately she's always been wanting water in the middle of the night. Now I leave water in her sippy next to her bed where she can get to it, so both los are on somewhat of a miracle night routine right now. Cross fingers it keeps up. 

But anyone notice when night sleep gets better, naps gets worse? Since DS started sttn, the 45 min monster has been visiting during the day, now. But, I'll take that over the 45 min monster during the night, right? I'm messing with daytime A times right now to see if I can iron that out...

[Lewa]

Fantastic Emma-Rose's Mom!  It feels wonderful when you wake up without the sound of crying, and at a decent hour of the morning   Sounds like it's all back on track.

I'm going on a weekend trip away tomorrow, so fingers crossed it doesn't upset the routine too much!

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Thanks for the props! I am sort of back on track, but find that DS tends to teeter-totter. After five days of sttn, last night had 3 NWs. It's almost as if he either sleeps through the night or he just is "off rhythm" and can't seem to do it. So, off night yesterday, but it's one night. Hopefully back to sttn tonight. We'll see what happens.

Lewa, good luck on the weekend trip away!! I know how that can just throw a wrench into things, but you've got to get out every now and then, right? Fingers crossed for you.

[Lewa]

Cheers, it's only one night, so hopefully won't be too bad!  Hope tonight DS STTN

[mamaShine]

Jane, yes, with solids, we started at 6 months. And yes, I was wondering if this might have something to do with DS's NWs? He was constipated so badly, even when he was ebf. He actually went 9 days w/o poop! Now that he's on solids, it's aweful. He's still constipated, and he has a really hard time.

Our LO unfortunately inherited my stomach issues, so battling constipation from day 1.  Now that he's on solids (6.5 months old but started solids at 4.5), I found that MAKING FRESH organic prune puree is magical.  It more concentrated I guess.  I give it to him 3x a day (about a table spoon worth) after his meals.  I thought that he would be ok w/o it and I gave him mango puree instead, and he got constipated right away.  SO... I make two or three ice cube trays at a time and pull out 2 servings each night when I pull the rest of his food.  I put the frozen servings into glass container, seal it and it is ready to go the next day. 

My doctor also recommended that we ADD (not replace) 1/2 oz. to 1 oz of water at every bottle.  So he drinks water via sippy cup, water in this formula + prune juice. 

[Emma-Rose's mom]

mamashine, thank you for your post. I also give DS prune purees everyday, and he is still battling constipation. Even with prune purees that I make at home, he still only poops 2x per week. I've never given him bananas or any other fruits that have the tendency to constipate, as a result. Too bad, too, because we LOVE bananas. My pediatrician actually told me he might be one of the unfortunate few that have to be on fiber supplements from a young age, like an old man. LOL!

[stevesmum]

thanks ladies, i'm not posting my lack of sleep story, as you all seem to have had my 8mo lo in your house recently!! but i shall try your advice, and hopefully it shall work for my house too... oh and emma roses mom if constipation is bad in Australia, we can get glycerol suppositories which work a treat, at the chemist without a script...
i don't know if the constipation is that bad yet, though i think a poo a day is good if they are on solids.... but not a doctor sorry