taking ages to fall asleep for nap - up to or more than 1.5 hours

[mmom]

Well, most of you know my story.  My very inconsistent LO is now playing games at nap time.  While living with my mom, I thought we got things sorted.  But for the 3rd day in a row, it has taken him 1.5 hours to fall asleep for his nap.  The first day this happened, I thought it was a fluke.  The 2nd day I assumed OT, since his night was even shorter than usual.  So today I put him down early, despite having our best night in weeks.  It still took him that long to fall asleep.  He played and played.

His usual wake time is 5/5:30 and we have been doing a nap between 11:30/12 for ages now.  I know it is a long A, but it has never been an issue.  OT crept in a couple of weeks ago due to teething, NW's, and having to sleep at other places and I shortened his morning A's and gave him a nap at 11..  It only took a couple of days for him to be back to normal.

Aside from it being frustrating that he doesn't fall asleep, it is really creating a late bedtime.  This is not giving us a later wake up.  His bedtime has been 8 pm for the last 4 days and we are still getting a 5:30 wake up.  Although, I have to say that this morning it was 6 am, which was great.  But he only napped for 1 hour yesterday.

DH thinks I should just put him down later and maybe he will fall asleep quicker.  But I am not sure.  I also can't practically put him down earlier than 11:30 most days, so a really early nap isn't an option every day.  Not that it matters, since I tried an earlier nap today and he still played for 1 hour and 45 minutes.  What should I do?

Oh, and I should also add that his wake up time is not effected by nap length.  There have been a few days where put him down early, let him sleep for 2.5 hours, and he woke at that time.  Conversely, there have been day where he only slept 1 hour and woke at the same time.  No matter what I do, he wakes at the same time.

[hrk]

Hi Kara!  I have to wake H, but wanted to check in to see how you were doing, as I saw you posted. 
XXXXXXXXX,
Jean

[babybarr]

I would do nap at 12.30pm - we recently did this when we had nap refusal but then dropped back after DS started settling again.  You could do a 12.30pm-2pm nap and a 7pm bedtime I would think.

[mmom]

Hi Jean!! We have good days and bad as you can see.  You know how it is, we move forward and backwards all the time.

Laura, I can try a set 12:30 nap.  Hopefully, then he actually falls asleep then!!!

[Tweakster]

Well Kara you know that I share your pain as far as EW are concerned, so I think I agree with Laura to push the nap out rather than make it earlier.  There's no incentive for a longer night if he gets an early nap or to sleep for a nap if he's not tired enough.

We're still getting EW here too.  No matter what.  He takes all kinds of different naps at daycare and at home, yet his waking remains the same (without intervention).  When DH goes in and shifts him at 3 a.m. he might sleep until 5:30 lol  Small victories hey.

[mmom]

Wendy, I have sadly accepted the EW's.   That is why I just let my LO nap for whatever time he wants.  It doesn't seem to effect his wake up time at all.  But since the stinker is now refusing naps (or at least prolonging them greatly), he is making things even more difficult.

I do know your pain though when it comes to EW's.

[babybarr]

Good luck with the later nap.  Keep us posted.

[hrk]

Hi again!  :-)  You could try 12:30, but if he is sensitive to a lot of changes in routine it could be rocky.  If it may be too much at once, try adjusting later by about 15-20 minutes to see if you are headed in the right direction?  Maybe you have seen that doing more drastic changes works.  With H, it seems to work better inching along.  Did wind down changed at all between the two enviroments?  Heath does better with more activity earlier, but not as much physical activity about a hr and a half before nap.  So, lunch at 11 (to allow the tummy to empty before laying down), 11:40-12 some signing time, 12:00 up to room to read books/potty for 20 plus minutes, and then to sleep. 

Since you have tried most of the *usual* strategies and have varying success, I keep trying to think outside the box.  :-)  H has required quite a bit of that too. 

I know we have talked some sensory talk before.  It seems that the he got used to an new environment, and then things changed causing sleep issues.  I would guess there were quite a few things that were a bit different about the setting?  Perhaps compare the two and make any adjustments to make them more similar?  From what I have read, it seems sleep issues can follow those little ones with sensory issues. 

Just going to throw out any more questions, too...a lot of things can be inter related; casting that wide net again, but perhaps it isn't wide enough, eh?  Also reading a great book called "The Minds of Boys".  Research based on the different brain differences between girls and boys. 

How is your developmental progress with speech?  Fingers crossed that all is going great there!  Did the signing ever catch on?
How is the feeding going? 
Are you still doing a med?  Any sign of the food sensitivites easing up?  My fingers are crossed that you have had some improvment! 

XXXXXXXXXXXX,
Jean

[mmom]

We got another 6 am wake up.  Maybe things are shifting.....

Jean, I can't really say that he is overly sensitive to changes.  The poor kid has been carted around for the last month and while naps were horrible at times, he also adjusted to living at my mom's quite quickly.  I am not going to sit here and say that he is a highly adaptable LO.  But it could be worse.  All I know is that he is really fighting that nap.  In the past, I have just jumped in A times and it has taken a couple of days to see results.  So I can try a later nap and see if that helps.  It just didn't seem like that was the answer at first.  It appeared to me that he was fighting the nap because he got a second wind by that point, given how tired he was earlier in the morning.

I am always open to outside the box thoughts though, since my LO tends to be outside the norm with almost everything.

To answer your questions about the other stuff, we have a couple of more words.  But I still asked for a referral to early intervention.  They come to evaluate for speech and sensory stuff on the 18th.  You will see that i have another thread going on foods, so I am not making strides in that area. Right now my main concerns are that my LO only has 6 words.  Although surprisingly the evaluator said he still only has a 50% chance of qualifying because his receptive language seems ok.  He also has food limitations which concern me, but not as much as the speech.  Finally, he gets really overwhelmed in bigger social situations and I want tips for dealing with that.  When he is around family or in small groups, he is quite social.  But when I bring him to his toddler classes, he will sometimes just stop and scream when it gets loud or overwhelming.  I even was surprised the other day when I was in a store and a women said hello to him and he almost yelled back at her.  He has never done that before.  He has seemed to feel safe in the shopping cart and normally smiles at people unless they get too close. 

[Tweakster]

It appeared to me that he was fighting the nap because he got a second wind by that point, given how tired he was earlier in the morning.

I am always open to outside the box thoughts though, since my LO tends to be outside the norm with almost everything.

Yeah I always struggle with this one.  Does he need more A time or is he just so OT from cumulative OT that he's gone overboard and acting like he's not tired because he can't settle himself enough to sleep i.e. running on adrenaline?  Usually I find the latter.  But I also know that he has to be pushed to get a good nap (because napping is such a PITA for him - I think he finds it cumbersome rather than welcoming) so we are left with a dilemma.  We find his cues so unreliable.  Actually recently we have noted that he is way more clumsy and uncoordinated when he gets tired, so he gets that silly, clumsy thing going on.  It's the only sign we can really use at the moment.

Also I was thinking about what Jean said about whether to make changes slowly or all at once.  I find that Finn responds better to the shock value of the change.  He is reasonably adaptable but also very schedule oriented and it does take time for him to adapt but he gets there eventually.  We have had the best success with set nap and bedtime, finally, when he hit 12 mths things got better.  No the EW did not go away and things are never perfect, but we feel like we know more about what we are doing and I think that helps him in the long run.  He can sense the confidence we have in this is x and this is y and there will be very little budging without good reason.

Hugs about the communication & language, we are really worried here too, although trying not to be.  Good call on the early intervention.

Good news about the 6 a.m. wake up!!!

[babybarr]

They are just so confusing aren't they?!!

Glad you got a good wake up though Kara. 

Hugs to you on the social stuff, I know how that feels - although fortunately DS doesn't scream but shuts his eyes or buries himself in me so he can't be seen!  We were at my niece's as it was her bday on mon and even though the room only had family in it it still was too much for DS who clung to me like a limpet for about 30mins, while everybody tried to coax him out of it   I wish they'd just learn he's not like other toddlers and it takes him a long while to adjust to lots of people.  I do blame the hospital visits and procedures for this behaviour. 

[hrk]

I wonder what it is about your moms that was successful.  Was he just more tired overall, or was it just easier to get him down?  How is it different, ie the sounds he hears falling asleep, the texture of the blankets/sheets (anything), the type of bed (the same one?), is it darker/lighter in there?, the amt/kinds of activity he is doing before going to sleep successfully, smells?, clothes he is wearing; anything that stands out?  

Your comment about your lo being outside the box for a lot of things like feeding (oral defensiveness), sleeping (if there is difficulty screening sensory input in the environment it is hard to sleep), or being in louder/new environments (new people, things, toys, noise, smells; how do you decide what to pay attn to when it is all new or overwhelming at once).  It does take an ot with the right training and experience with birth to three, perhaps.  Although, I know you have someone who would be pretty well qualified.

The ot we have met with told me "You know you have been in this business a long time when you are telling parents which fast food restaurants have the biggest straws for working on blowing and sucking activities.  She wasn't advocating us eating there with his food issues, but rather it is the only place she has seen them available.  (He was 2.25 yrs before getting how to use a straw; an issue with low tone.)  She was telling us that Burger King had the best straws, so we can work on the low tone H has in his face.   It is probably our biggest sensory challenge in addition to some lingering feeding issues that the ot says we still have from reflux.  His proprioception is doing well (an initial concern); he is riding a run bike!
  
OK, back to discussing sleep, lol.  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, I hope you are having a good day and you find some solutions very soon.

[hrk]

I initially missed you said "speech" and "sensory" in the screening you have coming up.  I do hope it sheds some light.

I will have to check your feeding thread. 

[mmom]

Well, a nap at 12:30 worked.  He went to sleep almost immediately.  He woke at 2 when my FIL started using a screw gun right underneath his room.  I am actually wondering if the later bedtime was starting to give us a later wake up.  So I don't know what an earlier bedtime will bring.

Jean, the odd thing is that the room at my mom's wasn't really nice or anything.  We set up a crib in my old room, which is now a storage room.  So he was shoved into boxes and stuff.  The only reason we went with this room was because it was the darkest one in the house.  The first few days were rough, but then he settled.  He has actually been napping well, with the exception of the 3 days prior.  Maybe we needed a longer A?  Who knows.  Other than that, we always use the same things: a fan, music as a wind down, same sheets, smells ( a lavender spray), etc.

As for the other stuff, that is why I insisted on the referral.  My LO drinks out of straw cups, so that isn't an issue.  But we have plenty of others as you can see.

Laura - My family knows that my LO is slow to warm up and surprisingly all of these changes on our house have actually made him more comfortable with them.  Because we have been going to their houses more to get away from ours, he actually greets them with hugs and kisses.  But meet a stranger and forget it!!  

Wendy - My LO gets clumsy when tired too!!  It is almost like he is drunk.  As for Finn and speech, I know they would tell you it is early.  I asked about it when my LO was screened for motor skills at 12 months and they said they don't even expect much at that point.  They also said that the reflux has played a large role in his delay and you may see something similar with Finn (not trying to scare you - just saying they see it often.)

[hrk]

Hopefully the the 12:30 time will work like a charm!  That would be the best, right!  We try to wake by about 2ish,too.  Bedtime has been drifting later than 8:30.  Our long a is before bedtime at night.  Kind of crazy about the screw gun.  I think grandparents forget how hard it is to get los to sleep sometimes.  ;-)

I agree that our family tries to take their time and let him warm up like M.  LOL about the strangers.  The ot said that is better than them running up to someone they don't know for a hug.  ;-)  So, that is not completely a bad thing. 

Mention the clumsy at the apt, too.  Gosh, sometimes our little ones seem to have so many similar characteristics, lol.  But, we are at 2.5 yrs and things are really coming around.  Med free, but still trying to figure out food intollerances.