Feeling a bit discouraged with 19 mo independent sleep during teething, wiwo?

[katie80]

My LO is just getting her incisors and struggling with independent sleep.  It seems she has a VERY small sleep window at the moment and if I don't hit it right, she has a lot of trouble falling asleep on her own.  She has been an independent sleeper since 5 mo old, when I did PU/PD to get her off a pacifier.  Last night, after dragging out her winddown (needing to kiss one more animal, asking for Orajel but then refusing it, etc.), I knew we had missed the window.  I had trouble just getting her into her crib.  She was UPSET, and I'm not sure about WIWO during teething (tried it twice this week for naps, but gave up after 30 min and an hour), so I ended up rocking her to sleep, but that took over an hour as well.  I did give her Motrin (ibuprofen) as part of bedtime routine, so then I wonder if it really is the teeth or something else.

She has struggled with falling asleep at times with naps in the past, usually due to the wrong timing, but never bedtime, even if OT.  There have been times when she's been sick that I've rocked her, and when she's well, she goes right back to falling asleep on her own.  My main worry is that if it is teeth, she still has one more incisor to come through and then all those canines (which are starting to swell, I think).  The incisors have taken a good 2 months to come through, so that's a long time to need help falling asleep.  It doesn't happen every day, but when it does, it's exhausting.  And I can't rock her for naps, as she wakes up right when I put her down, so that leaves driving in the car, which isn't very fun.  

During NWs, sometime way back when I was too tired to just go in and pat her, I picked her up, sat with her for about 15 to 20 min, and then laid her back down awake, which has now become our routine (yes, ooops, I know).  So, sometimes it takes a little longer, but twice this week, it hasn't worked at all and I've ended up having to hold her the rest of the night.  

Soooo, I'm just feeling pretty tired and I know she is too.  If she wasn't teething, I'd be gung-ho to start WIWO as soon as possible, but I'm tentative as the two times I did it this week, it seemed there was no chance it would work (and she really already knows how to go to sleep on her own).  I haven't tried GW, because she's always done better with me more out of the room.  But, what I am doing doesn't seem to be really helping anyone out, and I just keep thinking there must be another way.  Any suggestions to help?

Sorry this got so long.  Thanks for reading!

[brenda2]

teething goes on forever, my 2.5 yo is still teething her last molar, if you wait until she's done it'll be a very long time.  it sounds to me like you have done some AP and that's probably as much of it as the teething is.  i think if you make her comfortable with the tylenol/meds/gum gel etc then just go ahead with the wiwo.  she will know you are there and you can medicate in the middle of the night when she wakes and then just say ok go back to sleep now and walk out. stop doing the rocking and cuddles.

why don't you post your routine too just to see if anything needs a tweak.

[katie80]

Thanks, Brenda.  Yes, I agree that there's a lot of teeth left, and I don't want to AP all the time.

Here's our routine:

Wake 6:30 - 7 am
Nap  11:30/12 pm (usually 1.5 hr, sometimes 2 hr, sometimes 1 hr)
Bed    6:30 pm (sometimes 6, if I can make it work, but has been getting later due to some of the stalling, etc)

She used to be on a set naptime around 12 pm, but she now can't make it that long if she wakes before 7 am.  If she has a long NW or EWs at 6 am or before, I do a morning CN around 10 and an afternoon nap at 1:30 pm.  Those days seem to be the days she handles the best right now. 

In terms of WIWO, my concern there is that I'm unwilling to medicate daily for 2-3 months.  If I know there is a tooth cutting, I will give her tylenol before nap and motrin before bed.  I only medicate in the middle of the night if she's very upset and obviously in painn (I guess that's why I started just giving her a few cuddles and laying her back down).  So, is the medicating part a must before doing WIWO while she's teething?

[*Becky*]

Hi Katie
For me if I suspect DS is teething then I do not do WIWO but if you have medicated and so can be pretty sure that it is not pain related then yes I guess WIWO is ok. I think if you are giving medicine then in my opinion you need to wait until the meds have kicked in to do WIWO. I also would not medicate daily for that long. I try to only do meds before bed if we have had a bad day or he is very grumpy, otherwise I do it in the night. If that happens I medicate and then stay with him until the meds kick in and usually I can then leave as he can sleep.
Hugs - it is really tough x

[katie80]

Thanks, Becky

There just seems to be so many factors going on (teething, a little OT, developmental leaps and bounds, etc).  That's why I'm a bit unsure of what to do.  I know most of the napping problems are due to timing, so I feel I can pretty easily work with that.  The bedtime is just throwing me for a loop, because for her whole life, she's never really had trouble with it (I mean other than the very random day here or there).

I think I'll try doing a bit earlier bedtime (since I know her morning A has dropped with the teeth) without meds for a little while and then give some if she wakes in the night.  Then, I can be with her for a little while and should be able to put her back down.  If that doesn't work, I'll go back to giving some meds before bed and do WIWO if she struggles.  TBH, I just want to save that as a last resort, because I hate to have her cry and go through all of that when I know she already knows how to go to sleep on her own and there may be something else I can do to help her.

For me if I suspect DS is teething then I do not do WIWO

If you haven't given meds and he has trouble settling, what do you do?

[*Becky*]

TBH, I just want to save that as a last resort, because I hate to have her cry and go through all of that when I know she already knows how to go to sleep on her own and there may be something else I can do to help her.

Yes...I agree.
Henry is also pretty good at bedtime settling but when teeth are bad he can be tricky. I tend to go to him and if I have not given meds I give them as with him it is unusual so I usually know it is pain related. Then I stroke his head and/or ssh him and try to leave the room. If he is ok with that I then ssh outside the door until he is asleep and if not I stay till he is asleep.
If you know she is teething then I would not worry about being with her but what I would say is that once this is over be quick about helping her back to independent sleeping. With Henry we took too long after molars and he needed us with him for naps for ages which was a nightmare!!!

[brenda2]

i was going to suggest a later bedtime.  getting up at 7 am and going to bed at 6 pm is a pretty short day.  my dd moved from a 12 hour day to a 13 hour day around age 2.  i wonder if she's resisting bedtime because not tired enough.

also, if you know she's having trouble with teeth and you medicate in the middle of the night why not stay in the room with her but leave her in the crib, don't take her out and avoid the lengthy cuddles/holding and rockign to sleep etc.

[katie80]

Thanks, ladies.  A later bedtime isn't going to do it, unfortunately, she's super OT at this point, with other stuff going on.  I didn't realize when I first posted that she's only had one day this week of over 10 hrs night sleep.  That is not good for her; she usually gets 11 - 12 depending on the naps. 

Last night she struggled again at bedtime and the way she did it (arching back, trying to get out of my arms during wind down, etc) is very characteristic of OT for her.  So, even though her daytime sleep hasn't been so bad, I think OT has accumulated.  She also woke in the night and DH went to her.  After a bit, he asked her what hurt, assuming she'd say teeth, and she said 'ears.'  Then, she woke up with a yucky nose and a hacking cough, so obviously there's much more in the works than I was thinking.    Will have to get that all checked out.  Today, we went for 2 naps, and she fought the second one OT style again, so DH is out driving with her. 

I guess at this point I'll wait for the tooth to pop through, the runny nose and cough to get better, and work at wiping up the OT.  Then, if she's still struggling with independent sleep, I'll work up a plan, and will probably be back to get some help.  Thanks again for your input!

[brenda2]

sending get well vibes...

[*Becky*]

hugs hun....keep us posted x

[katie80]

So, another bad night.  Woke up and screamed for an hour.    Getting her ears checked this afternoon. 

Took her out for a drive and 20 min CN this morning.  She's been sleeping this afternoon for 1 hr 40 min.  I think I'll let her go for 2 hrs and then wake her (which will be about 3 pm).  Should I go for 7 pm bedtime then?  She's had such little sleep the last week, I don't think that would be too early, but I never really know what to do on a day like this. 

[brenda2]

follow cues if you can...that sounds like a good plan,

[*Becky*]

sorry it is still rough with you Katie. Def get her checked out at the doctors.
How was your night?

[katie80]

No ear infection; good news.  Still thick runny nose and cough; bad news.  With the good nap, though, and what ended up being about 7:45 bedtime, she slept through the night!  So, I'm thinking the NWs were mostly OT (which is different for her, but she has hardly ever gone to bed that late, I guess) and then not feeling well.  And she still struggled falling asleep on her own, so I know I've become a prop.  How did I let that happen at 20 mo?     I know independent sleep is so important, but I really don't enjoy teaching it with all the crying.     Guess I'll still wait a few days until the nose and cough clear up, and then I'll need some help. 

It's frustrating that she's going down well for naps (at the right timing, of course) and then struggling at bedtime.  That's totally opposite of the rest of her life.     I'll be back for WIWO tips.  Thanks!

[*Becky*]

It happens to us all hun...I remember thinking that when Henry was 11 months...how did we get here i.e. needing to be with him for all naps.
But we did get it sorted and you will too. You are doing the right thing as you are there for her when she is having a rough time.
I am starting to wonder if now it is becoming a routine issue - do you think bedtime could be too early/late??? Does it make a difference to her settling either way?