How to drop the last nap when resisting bedtime keeps her up late?

[marensmama]

Hayden is in the transition to no nap.  She was having trouble with UT and couldn't fall asleep at night when her nap was 2 hours long.  I shortened it to an hour for a week,  that wasn't enough for her, she was tired and crabby, although bedtime went much more smoothly.  So I moved it to 1.5 hours which has been ideal for the last month.  Up until now.  For the last week, she has been waking on her own at the one hour mark or 1.25 tops, and has not been going to sleep until quite late (tonight was a record 10:00!!) with all her bedtime resistance antics.  I gather it's time to cut the nap, but I'm not sure how to go about doing that when she's still waking at 6 ish (early, but normal for us).  She's missing out on so much night sleep that I would feel terrible taking away any nap, since she's just getting an hour these days.  Any thoughts?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Masyn was that age when we dropped the nap...it was either doing that or having a late bedtime and I had just gotten the girls on the same bedtime and I wanted to keep it.  By that point I had whittled her nap down to a 15 min power nap!!!  Maybe try a 45 min nap and go from there to see if the nights lenghten? (Masyn did a solid 12h night since, and just in the last few months has dropped to 11/11.5)

[marensmama]

Well last night she was up until after 11...  Just happy, playing, wanting my company.  So today we'll do a 45 minute nap and see how it goes.  She's already tired this morning.  

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Yikes!!! Would she do an earlier nap for an hour and then a long A time before bed? I finding lately with Spencer that to get an 1.5-2h nap that she needs nearly 6 hours of A time in the am, so not sure if a shorter A time would work.  Hopefully she's not too much of a crab for you on Mother's Day!!! {{{hugs}}}

[Mom to M&M]

Agreed on trying a 30-45 minute nap (earlier if she'll go for it).

[marensmama]

Ok well this is terrible. She had a 45 min nap yesterday and was a little off but not terrible and she went to bed no problem.... I had to wake her up this morning for daycare and she was fine but was a complete bear all day at daycare... They gave her a 45 min nap at my request and she woke up ok but was sooooo touchy and sooo OT that she didn't eat much and cried all through bath Then she was so beside herself that she couldn't fall asleep and was begging me to stay with her and trying to scratch my eyes out all at once.  It was rotten.  She is teething, has one last canine coming and it's right there so I know that's not helping matters but this sucks.  So I'm going to try an hour nap tomorrow and see if we get another late night.  If we do then I know we just have to live through the transition and I'll have done all I could.  Did I mention how much this sucks??

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

{{{hugs}}} it does suck, esp. if she's getting a tooth in...those canines are nasty.

[marensmama]

So last night after being difficult to get down Hayden woke 45 min into her sleep and then had a nw that lasted longer than 2 hours...    Idk what to do!

[deckchariot]

{{{{{hugs}}}}} Nicole.  Has she tended to be average or below/above with her sleep?  I'm just wondering because we had similar bedtime disasters with Abby, so I cut her nap back, figuring it was time to start letting it go.  We'd see a wee improvement for one day, then things would get worse and I never knew what to do.  She has tended to be above average in terms of her sleep needs, so despite what seemed to be the "right" thing, I actually moved her nap 30 min earlier and let her sleep longer (I had cut it to an hour, now it's 1.5 hrs), and moved bedtime just 30 min.  that's totally been helping!  So her routine is now:

7/7:30 - wake
1-2:30 - nap (I wake her)
8 - bed

I know it seems counter-intuitive, but Abby's a high sleep needs bub, so it's been working for us.

If Hayden tends to be low sleep needs, then I'd try a 45 min nap.  Generally, if bubs are ready to drop their naps, they will make it up overnight.  It doesn't sounds like Hayden is, which makes me wonder if she's not quite ready.  Also, how are you handling the bedtime antics?  We found out we were being way too interactive with Abby, so if/when she gets up, we just point back to her room, and she has to go back to bed.  If she doesn't, we "walk" her back to bed, but don't tuck her in, she has to do that herself.  And we use wi/wo only if she's crying - if she's just calling for us, we don't go in at all.  That's really helped too.

Hang in there!!  We'd been having issues for almost a month, and just in the last week things have started to improve. 

[marensmama]

Hi Michelle. You know, I can't really put my finger on what's going on exactly.  I know that she has always gone for a nap whether she needed it or not, thanks to the great cue of her grobag.  I've always had to assess the situation as to what else is going on because she'd always go down regardless, maybe having EWs or some bedtime resistance etc. I do think that this canine coming in is kicking her routine to the curb.  I also just last night remembered that she's not a teeny baby anymore and that perhaps I'm coddling her too much during these wakeups and bedtime antics. So last night I figured she could scream the house down I was not going to take her out of her crib.  She was really mad at me and let me have it but did eventually calm down (although she continued to call out for me and cry for me, and I was only going to her when she escalated).  So I do agree that there is some component of that... I do feel like she is testing those limits and maybe we've helped to create that.  However, I do know that when bedtime resistance started and I originally cut her nap to 1.5 hours and moved it earlier that worked - this seems like further progression through the dropping nap transition.  I feel like this latest resistance is part boundary seeking, part teething, and part needing less day sleep.  And I feel like no matter what I do I'm messing it up. 

That being said, she had an hour nap at daycare, was much happier throughout the afternoon and did resist bed tonight but only for a half hour.  She was begging (screaming) for a snack which I have given into before (can't bear the thought of a hungry babe going to bed and she knows it).  Anyways, I didn't take her out of her crib like I have been doing, I just talked to her and laid her down and rode it out with her until she was calm.  She didn't want me to leave so I told her I'd come back after helping Maren and she promptly fell asleep.  Wi/wo makes her hysterical, so I really can't use that.  We'll see how horrific tonight is!!  Wish me luck!!

[deckchariot]

that's great progress Nicole!!!  We had the same issues with too much coddling with the bedtime antics and then realized that she really is old enough at this point to "work the system" so to speak.  It sounds like you've got a handle on the issues (less day sleep, teething, coddling), but it's the solution that seems out of reach!  {{{{hugs}}}} we've all btdt!  Based on how she responded to the hour nap at daycare, it sounds like that might be a good bit for her in the daytime - now if only we can get past the teething and settling routine, you'll be golden

[marensmama]

So last night was AMAZING!!!    We had no NWs at all, and only a little griping about going to sleep.  Today she was very happy and way less touchy.  We gave her an hour nap and she was in a great mood all afternoon (as was I, it's amazing what a good night's sleep will do!!).  Tonight she went down with even less fuss than last night (shouting 'MOOOOMMMMMYYYYY!  WHERE ARE YOU??  MOM?' but she gave up after about 3 minutes of me not answering).

The tooth is not through, but it's very close... maybe if I feed her something crunchy it'll finally break the skin, it's really that close.  Her mood today was so good that I really think that the worst is over.  Famous last words? So hopefully, when she's ready to drop more of this nap she'll be out of the bedtime resistance for fun, and she has no more teeth to come, so it'll all be that much clearer.  Or she'll be in a toddler bed and getting in and out a hundred times... there's always something!

So thank you Michelle and Heidi too for all your help.  I'll be back if something else crops up! 

[deckchariot]

wonderful news!!!!!!  Keep doing what you're doing and you'll be just fine.  And we'll be here when you're not

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Yay! Masyn has just figured out that she can work the system at bedtime, it finally occured to her that we do not go to bed when she does and that she might be missing out on something.  Long may the good nights continue 

[marensmama]

Lol Heidi!  They do hate to miss out, don't they!?  Another few great nights here, so it does look as though we've got it sorted for now.  Thanks again both of you for your help!