OT cycle (?) and EW- can't break

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

M, I would try the routine Wendy posted for a few days.  You're right where we were a week or 2 ago, teeth and all.  It's the worst!   But in the end going to a 1h nap helped us for a few days and got us a couple of better night so we could go to 45 min in AM which is what we've been on for a week or so now and it seems to be working.  I know he needs to be able to handle longer As to get less daytime sleep but with A, at least, I really have to push him hard through it to cut the daytime sleep.  Can't be subtle with my kid, I seem to be learning.   But E has always had lower A times so, hmm.  Anyhow, I guess I'm back to my original point which is that I would follow those set naps for a few days no matter what happens and see how he does.  Hugs.

[Mjaz]

Interesting thought about not getting him up before 6am.  We had tried that for some time, but sort of gave up, b/c it was so frustrating - we'd shh/pat and he'd just keep trying to roll over and play with us.  So we've been leaving him in his crib till 6, but allowing him to play by himself b/c we were just so frustrated with him :/ 

I can do the set naps - but I think my problem is being so afraid of OT.  We were just in an OT hole for almost 3 weeks and I guess I'm just terrified of going back in.  If he wakes at 5am and nap one isn't till 9 - eeee - I don't know, I'm just worried.  He barely makes it 3 hours now.

I'm honestly even more worried about the 6pm bedtime - as, best case, that means he'll be up at 5.  Last time we tried an early BT, we were up at 4:15 :/  Sigh. 

Yesterday's A times worked well in a weird way - his first one was 3:20, but he did a 1:20 OT nap - not bad though - he was pretty happy.  And then his second A was 2:45, I guess b/c of the first slightly OT nap?  And he slept 2:10 on that one.  So interesting, isn't it?  My little monkey and his low A times...At least that got us to 3:15 and we did bedtime at 6:45.  It seems he's tolerating the first A being pushed more than the middle one.  Because he had a good 1:30 first nap, I pushed him to 3:15 for the second nap and got a one hour OT nap.  Boo. 

Do you think I should move ahead with this - say tomorrow - or wait for these little teeth to make it through?   I appreciate your help, ladies!

[Tweakster]

So if he tolerates the first longer A it should get you in a good place for a 9 a.m. nap.  Really napping him at this age before 9 is just going to compound EW.  Honestly, he will think 'well I'll just go back to bed in a bit' and no incentive to stay in bed for those 11 hours.  But of course you don't want a seriously OT kid on your hands so you have to do what's best :-)

I know the 6 bedtime is scary but if you are able to get a well-rested kid then you can keep working on those A times - and soon you can jump to 6:30 and then an even more appropriate bedtime.  Pushing bedtime later in favour of a later wake up only works when LO can handle the A times, otherwise it just creates more OT to clean up the next day IYSWIM.

He's very very sensitive to A times which is why I am thinking a longer morning A but with a first low key hour may be ok for him.  Then a shorter middle A and a reasonable A to bedtime.  He's shown he can and will do a longer second nap which is a good sign.  And set naps works well for kids that are sensitive, I know from experience since we live with one of those kids ;-)

Not getting him up is really important because it will just set his body clock and rhythms if you get him up start activities, expose him to light, etc.  If he plays on his own that's fine.  Finn has learned to self-entertain, we can't make him sleep, but we can show him that EW is his own time, there won't be any socializing so he might as well go back to sleep ;-)

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

FWIW, Melinda, I was terrified of the set nap so 'late' in the morning but Austin handled it like a champ.  If I tried to do that kind of A anywhere else in the day he'd be a disaster but since I leave him in the crib until, ideally, 6:45 (I'm a mean mommy!  Although if he's really getting mad I do get him out...), he has a lot of time in the dark on his own if he wakes at 5:15 or 5:30.  So that does make the A time 'feel' 'a bit shorter.

[Mjaz]

I see what you're saying.  So currently what we do in the morning when he wakes is we let him alone for as long as possible - he usually flips himself onto his back and babbles for 15 min. or so.  He then usually starts whimpering and fussing, so we go in and give him some toys - turn on the night light so he can see his toys - and then leave him there for another 30 minutes or so.  Sometimes we have to sit him up - other times he'll play lying on his back.  Is this acceptable or should I spend that hour forcing rest - shh/pat or rocking or?  I also don't really want him to think it's cuddle time...

Amen.  He really IS sensitive to A times.  Sigh.  I will see how tonight goes.  As soon as I have a solid night, I will start pushing that first A.  When I tried to do that on the initial advice of this post, I got really awful OT naps.  Like up at 30 minutes screaming and not going back to sleep.  So I think I will have to push slowly and see what he can handle.  I know he can do 3:20, even though that gives us a slightly OT nap of 1:20.  But like you said, Wendy, that seems like enough sleep to get him to the next nap.

Thanks, ladies.  Let me know what you think about the morning routine and I will change it up tomorrow morning if need be.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

I wouldn't force rest if I were you.  I think that would be like banging your head against the wall!  I would just leave him to it as you do.  When A gets fussy I do the same thing, just give him a couple of quiet, nonstimulating toys and leave again. 

Let us know how the night goes and the first A time....Good luck.

[Mjaz]

OK, so maybe we're progressing a bit over here.

E went to sleep at 6:20 and woke at 4:55 - so 10:35 (better than 10!) but what amazed me was he was crying a little vs. having a party - so I shh/patted and he went back to sleep. The sleep seemed very light - he never opened his eyes, but he stirred a lot.  So I kept shh/patting till 5:30 and then let things be.  He slept til 5:55.  So more or less, 11:30 of sleep for the night.  Woo-hoo.   

First nap was planned at 9, though he fell asleep quickly around 8:55.  He woke at the 35 mm, but went right back with shh/pat.  I know 35 min is usually UT for us, but it didn't seem UT - as I never have success extending those naps. So maybe OT?  And now I'm going to wake him.  Ha ha. 

Thanks for the help, ladies.  And WENDY!  So good to "see" you!

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

That does sound like progress!!  Yay, Elijah!  (And Melinda, too, of course! )  Let's see how this new routine treats him.

PS - Yes, Wendy, I thought the same thing!!

[Mjaz]

I take it back! No progress!  Ha ha.  OK, so when I woke him at the 1 hour mark he broke out into crying hard.  He seemed angry.  WTH?  I got him up anyway, but an 1:30 later he was acting extremely tired - rubbing eyes, getting very cranky, etc.  I asked MIL to keep him up to 1, but I don't know that he's going to make it.  Do you think maybe this is all b/c of his teeth and I just need to put any changes on hold till they're through? 

[Tweakster]

Honestly I would try to stick to something rigid for a while, it will be hard for a few days but then he'll get through it, you both will :-)  Finn hated/hates being woken and that hasn't changed.  I was so glad when we moved to 1 nap because there was no more poking the beast early out of a nap. 

[Mjaz]

OK, Wendy!  I'll stick to it!  I can't wait for one nap, to be honest.  I will pray that MIL puts him down at one and he takes a somewhat decent nap - HA!

[Tweakster]

I know it's hard, so so hard.  Finn teethed for months, he now has all teeth except for the 2 year molars, phew.  So we had to push ahead regardless because being on a routine that didn't suit him AND teething was just compounding all the issues.  So we went though a rough OT patch but then it evened out and things got infinitely better.  But I had to stick it out rather than switching things up on him every day.  He responded very well and my hope is that Elijah will do the same.  If you really feel that short naps are going to be an issue then I would be tempted to accept shorter nights for keeping the 2x 1.5 hour naps until you see an improvement in his mood/behaviour.  Lots of LO's still need max day sleep but shorter nights until they reach the age appropriate A times and can drop some of the day sleep.

Really the way to keep them up is to go for max activity and anything that will physically exhaust him.  So letting him crawl/cruise/etc. around the house.  Take him into different areas that he doesn't normally go.  If it's nice, the backyard or park is always a good bet.  Keeping him busy busy busy.  It helps distract them from teeth and also get past their usual tired times.  I used to do a really long lunch too, he couldn't' really sleep if he was eating lol  We would use that time to introduce a new solid, or practice sippy cup, or something like that.

[Mjaz]

Oh dear Lord - I don't think I can handle another rough OT patch :/  Let's hope we don't go through another one!  That makes sense about needing day sleep till he can handle more A time - I'm just sort of stumped as to why he's so stuck (in love?) with these low A times.  Hmph.  I will try this new routine to the best of my ability and see what happens.  If we start getting too OT and naps are consistently short, then I'll know I'm going to have to let up and accept his short nights. 

I LOL when I read this because before I left for work I started his lunch at 11:15 - thinking I'd make lunch a full 45 minutes   The child loves to eat, so I thought a long lunch would be good - but he was so cranky he was throwing his food on the floor :/  Maybe part of the problem is his crawling refusal.  Ha ha.  He is attempting to WALK without the crawling - which he can't really do without my help.  We went to the park this morning to swing and took an hour walk through the woods first thing this morning.  I hope I am giving him enough activity.  TBH, *I* need to get out and keep him distracted when he's cranky - I can't be cooped up in the house when he's like that - drives me mad!

This seems like a tough, tough age for routine - teeth, frustration from inability to move, etc...Thanks for your guidance!

Will update you when I get home and see what my MIL has done

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Melinda, I think that plan is good - try sticking to this for a few days and if it seems he is spiraling out of control, pull back and deal with short nights.  I'm with Wendy that the wrong routine + teething was just disastrous for us.  Thankfully we got into the right routine just as the teeth popped through so the stars aligned, finally.   Hoping they line up for you, too!

Amen to activity.  I *have* to get A out of the house every day, just to do something.  Crawling really does help so much, though.  Hopefully E will sort that out soon.  A didn't work it out until he was just about E's age.  It was like an overnight sensation, one weekend he just got it and then a few days later that was it!  Now we're exhausted from chasing him around all day but I do think it helps overall.  If E doesn't crawl, though, maybe he'll just sort out the walking thing soon.  Here's hoping.

Keep us posted....

[Mjaz]

He slept 1:15.  Don't know if that was OT - UT - right on - or what - as I didn't see him wake.