OT cycle (?) and EW- can't break

[Tweakster]

Hi there Melinda, it sounds ok to me.  I will be thinking of both you lovely ladies tonight :-)  And hopefully my kid will give me a break!

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Yeah we got tickety poo over here last night.   4 NWs between 10 and 3:45 and then the day started at 5:45.    It was yucky.  Then rushed out of here at 7am to spend the day with a friend in the hospital unexpectedly.  He's ok but oy.  I had the sitter just do what we did yesterday and we're just pushing on through.  He apparently napped beautifully (1h AM woke him, 1h25 PM woke himself) and he down like a dream so we'll see what tonight brings.  I got some meds on board just in case that's what the issue was last night.  I have been keeping the 2nd A the same but I've had to wake him from that AM nap consistently since I'm shortening it.  Haven't gotten a 45 min AM nap despite all the changes, knock on wood.

Hope the early bedtime helps him along.  Keep us posted on how those As work for him tomorrow.

[Mjaz]

Oh ladies, am I doing the right thing? 

Wake: 5:15
A: 3:15
S: 1 hour - woke crying - sh/patted for 15 minutes, but then woke

A: 3
S: 1 hour - woke crying

We're, again, looking at a very long last A time just to get us to 6pm
Do I seriously do this again tomorrow?

[Jiinx]

Hi there,
 I do this this situation rings of UT...however, being so scared of OT it's hard to get out of the UT/OT cycle. I find myself so hesitant to tell moms to increase their babies A by too much in fears of creating more OT However, I did push it back a few months ago and I realize that she could handle more A time that I gave her credit for.

It really helps when they spend some of their A time in their crib while you finish sleeping or getting ready. A half hour - 45 minute alone in their crib is not too bad.

I remember my lo waking up at 5:30...I didn't get her until 6:30 and then I wouldn't put her to sleep before 8:45. She gave me a 30 minute nap the first couple of times but then her body adjusted to it and she was able to sleep for 1 hour 5 or 1 hour 10...

Not sure why he's waking at 1 hour crying...it sounds suspiciously like OT but the fact that sh/pat didn't work and he woke could meant UT.

Could you try this routine for a couple more days and see what it gives you?

[Mjaz]

Empowered Mama, if you're still following this thread - have you made any headway into the OT/UT question?  I don't have time at the moment to read through all 10 pages of your thread (I will soon!)

Thanks for checking in, Sarah.  E does spend at least 30 minutes in his crib in he morning - usually 45 and then he gets impatient  

I'm still leaning towards OT.  We put him to bed at 6:30 last night and he was up, on the dot, at 7:30 crying hard.  Took 30 minutes to get him back to sleep and then he was up again an hour later.  Gave him tylenol (teeth?) and rocked him for a couple minutes.  Then we didn't hear from him again till 5:30am.  Aren't those early NWs notoriously OT? 

This morning he seemed tired at the 2:30 mark.  I kept the activity low and tried to watch him carefully.  Around 3 hr he was rubbing his eyes, so I decided to put him in his crib for very low A - and he started screaming and crying!  I picked him up, thinking he was UT and upset that I was trying to put him to sleep - but 10 minutes later, when I went to flip him on his tummy - he again started crying really hard.  So we got to the 3:15 mark, but he ended up asleep on me because *I* fell asleep with him in the chair - oy, I'm tired! 

He woke up 1:27 later (and woke me) but was not in a good mood - he did not want to play on his own at all - and seemed very whiny.  I told the sitter to stick to a middle A of 3 hours - so we'll see.

Any thoughts?
Thanks, ladies!

[Tweakster]

Melinda it really seems like it's teeth playing up.  The behaviour seems more and more discomfort to me - clingy, whiny, sleep disruption. EW.  After a nearly 1.5 hour nap I would expect him at 9 mths to be reasonably rested.  Can you medicate him before bed tonight to see if you can bypass early evening wakings?  The problem with waiting until he wakes to administer the meds means it doesn't kick in for about 30-45 mins so it's more time of him being awake and being upset.  How is he eating through all of this?  The sitter you have, is it a sitter who has spent a lot of time with Elijah, does she sense something is going on with him?

I've asked more eyes to take a look here and although I do think he needs more A time, it really seems like teething or something else at play here.

[Mjaz]

Thanks, Wendy.  Interesting thought, for sure.  My DH pointed out that this is similar to what he did at 6 months - and what I did there was follow him for several days - let him sleep, etc - until he was well rested and back on track.  Though it seemed like things were wonky for almost 5 weeks - they didn't get better until his bottom two teeth broke through.  We had NO idea or indication that he was teething!  (aside from being a crab apple)

His eating seems OK - we've noticed that he's eating like crazy in the morning and at night, but not really wanting the 11am bottle or the 12pm solids.  Should I medicate him during the day?  I did that a couple days ago and Lindsay (the sitter - who watches E every day and yes, knows him very well and yes, what she is said to me is that he seems tired) said she had to put him to sleep he was so out-of-whack.  A time was 2:18 (!) and he slept for 2 hours! 

Is it OK to medicate every night even though I'm not sure he's teething?  LOL.  Oh my word, Elijah may indeed be an only child

Thanks, W.

[empowered mama]

Hey M - sorry to hear things are rough right now   We are still working on ours - up and down, up and down.  Can't say that our problem is solved, but I am also entertaining the thought of teething, though DS seems quite happy and unbothered ATM.

However, I do think there is some OT mixed in there (for us I mean).  I'm going to give W2S a shot for the EW and see if it makes any difference.

I know how you feel about the meds....I really hate to give them when I don't know for sure if he needs them, but they can be such a mystery sometimes!

big hugs - we are in the same boat 

[Mjaz]

Just an update - yesterday I was out all day and had the sitter with Elijah.  I was fed up with his 4:45 EW, so I told her to follow him and to let him catch up on sleep.  It was sort of a mess of a day, but he slept a total of 3:40.   I got an 11 hour night last night!  5:45 never felt so good   Today I tried to follow him again, and got a 1:40 nap after an A 0f 3:05 and 1:20 after a second A of 2:55.  That took us to 2:45.  I tried for sleep at 6:30, but got the usual fight - till 7:05 :/  I don't get what's going on with BT - why is he so crazy?  He moves all over the crib, needs shh/pat to fall asleep, etc...NONE of which I see at naps.  Could he possibly be UT and need a really long last A? 

EM- have you tried giving him a catch up day?  Also, I think I saw somewhere that he eats 2 oz of food per solids meal?  Is that right?  I may have some ideas there... I feel like E's intake was key in getting him on a good solid STTN routine at 6 mos.  Any progress?

M.

[empowered mama]

Hey M - glad to hear your LO is catching up a bit.  Been thinking about you two and have a few thoughts...

I figured out that my DS was massively OT.  Last night was the worst night yet - many NWs, and an awful 1 hour inconsolable screamfest from OT city.  Someone gave me the tip to try to shorten his As to catch up.  I was afraid he would give me short naps, but he proved me wrong.  I was able to shave off 45 min of A time today to keep our day at 12.5 hrs.  Though I know he still needs to catch up more, I *think* we are making progress.

We have been having a struggle at BT as well, and for us I know it is OT.  DS gets really hyper and wired before bed which is a sure sign of OT here.  Does he seem really upset at BT?  I'm sure it could go either way - OT or UT - my best clue is his disposition. 

What are your thoughts on solids?  He seems satisfied with 2oz at each meal - sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.  DS is 8 months ATM.

[Mjaz]

Yep, E gets really hyper and wired before bed.  Hmph.  He's not upset - he's crazed at BT!  I think I am going to try a longer, more mellow wind down tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.  Oy.  So many pieces to the puzzle.  Sent you a PM re: solids, EM.

[empowered mama]

Thanks M!  Very helpful info....

Let us know how the WD goes - hoping you have another great night 

[Mjaz]

Surely!  Had a very weird day with E today.  The perfect A time that we had yesterday of 3:05 backfired and we got a 1:20 OT nap!  Never thought 1:20 would be OT, but he was not a happy camper when he woke.  And then his next A was like 2:40 b/c he fell asleep in the car.  When I picked him up he kept sleeping - so I put him in his crib and he slept for 1:45.   WHY IS HE SO TIRED???  10.5 hour night last night - so not bad, but still not back to "normal"...These low A times just can't get us through a full day - so I have no clue what to do :/  But longer A times are making him an OT mess...WE ARE STUCK!  Ha.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Argh, Melinda.  Big hugs.  It's funny, I feel like when you get stuck in these loops it always seems that E is really just super OT.  Do you think maybe he's having a GS?  I wonder if he's growing and that's why he's so darned tired? 

If it makes you feel any better we had a miserable night and a total of 1.5h of naps today.   BT at 6pm. Haven't done that in months!!

[Mjaz]

OK, here is my theory - when E was sick and this all went wonky - he was probably really tired and somehow didn't get enough sleep and got into this OT cycle.  Since then I have not been really successful at getting him out of it completely.  I've caught him up for a day or two, but he seems to be very susceptible to OT right now - my guess is from teeth or GS, like you said Kate.

He woke from his second nap at 2:00pm yesterday!  Because I had to take someone to the train station around 4:30, E fell asleep for about 17 minutes in the car. There wasn't much I could do.  I tried for bed at 6:30 and he fought it till 7:48.  Absolutely crazy.  And then was up, to the minute, at 5:48.  So, for us, these 10 hour nights and inability to APOP in the morning HAS TO BE OT.  Plus, after just 30 minutes of being up this morning, E was yawning. 

I'm going to follow him today, try to get good, long naps and then try bed at 6pm.  Hopefully we make it.  That's our biggest issue right now - if he wakes from his second nap at 2ish - do I put him to bed at 5:30 or what?  I think I may actually have to go for it, b/c obviously the little CN is NOT working.

What do you think?