EWs and NWs for 8 mo. - can you take a look?

[Jiinx]

Oh EM:( You're doing all the right things.

I'm just wondering if he is UT still. That's just me It really sounds like where I was.

I know you don't a feeding issue but have you tried limiting the amount you feed him in the EW? Just so when he wakes up for the day, he eats enough?

I used to put my daughter down at 6:30, and it was so common for me to get an "EW" of 4:30-5:30...I would leave her in the crib until 6 or so ..I used to feed her..but that didn't always necessarily make her go to sleep. Finally just pushed her As, as I mentioned to you before. I know you've tried it before..but just letting you know why it worked for me

It just may seem that the first nap is UT bc she was a bit rested from that "nap" from5:15-6:40..but got pretty tired for that second A and 2 hours and 45 minutes may have put her to sleep for awhile.

APOP doesn't work here..however, car rides do work when she's plenty tired. Especially if I give her her lovey. She's out like a light as she knows lovey = sleep/comfort.

I'm really pleased you were able to go out last night. We need that to be recharge ourselves and be our great mommy selves!

[empowered mama]

Thanks ladies

Today was a little odd....I was guessing all day and hoping for the best.  Had two 1h15min naps off first A of 3h15 and 2nd A of 3h10.  I made the crazy move of pushing BT back, so the last A was 3h45.  I just couldn't bear with another fight at BT so I decided to keep him up long enough where I knew he would settle in easy for bed.  This may backfire tonight, but so far he has had only had one brief NW where he resettled himself. 

Sarah do you mind me asking why you think UT still?  What about this sticks out to you?  I was under the impression that early NWs were always pointing to OT so I thought that was my main clue.

I've tried limiting the feeding at the EW, but it comes down to feed for a long time and have him go back to sleep, or feed for a few minutes and have him up for the day.  I don't know that it's the food that gets him back to sleep as much as it is the relaxation of nursing.  If you had to pick between the two, what would you do?  Do you think this is throwing off the whole day?

Nadia - DH tries to give me tips on his sleepy cues, and sometimes it's helpful.  Though I feel like he give me cues way off he A times and when I look to expect them, there is nothing!  Sometimes I feel like I should know my baby better than this, but I suppose it's a work in progress.  Maybe he'll learn to talk soon and can just tell me when he's tired, hah 

[Canadian_Mom]

EM -You are doing really well, though it seems tough.  So far you keep doing everything that I would have done.  You never know, your LO might need a huge first A time, then really short for the rest?

My DH was the one who let me know of DS's sleep cue (the one I still miss all the time).  I think I am with him so much that I can't see those tiny little things.  I hate it when DH says "I think he is tired" and I put him down (one time 30min earlier than his A time) and I get an awesome nap.  I totally think I should know my kid better!  Lets hold off on the kids talking to us though, because you never know what else they will be able to say

[Mjaz]

EM - it sounds like you had a pretty solid day - I'll be interested to hear how his night goes.  I think the A times and the nap lengths look pretty good!  Hang in there.

[empowered mama]

hmmm, still mulling around in OT land here 

last night was typical - several wakings and a couple EWs at 5 and 6:30 (woke around 7:40 after APOPing those 2 EWs, sigh)  Nap #1 was a bust - he was so cranky this morning, I knew he was still tired.  I put him down at 3h5 A time and we got a 40 min nap.  This is usually UT here, so I'm thinking we need to bump tomorrow which sounds ridiculous in spite of all the OT going on.  He has been working on nap #2 for 20 minutes now - I put him down, hoping he would be asleep by 3h A time, but he is playing around/babbling and not interested in sleeping!  Does this make sense to you?  Am I putting him down too early?  I do not get this kid.

If this ends up being a short one (and I have a sense it will be), then I'm going to go to the neighbors and try out their fancy dancy swing.  I seriously cannot imagine my child sleeping in it, but at this point I have nothing to lose. 

Some day we will have our catch up day!

[Jiinx]

I don't necessarily think he's UT but there is a chance that he starts the day rested and then may be OT by nighttime...

erm..lo is demanding attn. Be back

[Mjaz]

Oh, so sorry to hear that...what are his cues like?  Are they clear on a morning when they're tired.  I know you said he usually does a UT nap in the morning and you are thinking it was UT today - but when Elijah has a tough night, his A time in the morning is usually around 2:30 - and he's older than your LO.  If it weren't for E's cues, I would next get him out of OT.

Not sure that that helps you any - sorry!

[sparrow]

We have the same experience here -- even though lo is usually doing around 3h15 - 3h40, if she has a rough night or an EW her A time can often be reduced to 2h30 ish.  Her morning A is always the shortest though...

We borrowed one of those swings once and our kid hated it!  Some love it though... our best bet for an APOP nap is our ergo baby carrier. Do you have anything like it?  Maybe he'd pass out, all snuggled up to mum!  Although it's getting to be more of a workout now that our lo is getting bigger...

[empowered mama]

Yes, the cues don't really cue me into anything it seems!  Anytime I thought he would give me cues, I put him to bed and get a short nap.  Soooo....it seems we are back to the clock ATM.

S - I'm also starting to see the UT/OT thing going on too.  I really need to work on that first nap - otherwise the rest of the day goes to pot.  Our 2nd nap today was 1h5min and he took at least 30 min to settle in.  Went for the early BT, and he fought it again....there is just too much OT going on to really salvage the day.  

We are in the middle of a terrible NW - DS is just screaming manically - he is so OT it's not even funny.  I've tried everything except BF and nothing seems to calm.  Am I correct in that sleep training is a bad idea when they are OT?  Should I employ any prop at this point just to get him to sleep?  This is just so so hard when you feel so helpless...

[Jiinx]

oh dear he does sound OT. My lo has been chatting with yours, I think as we're getting crying at naps and bedtime! It's so tough.

EM, I really want you to take it easy for the next couple of days. Try to sleep early and then try to focus on one nap at time. I think you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself. These night wakings WILL end and WILL get sorted.

It's hard to see past the moment though. I'm a little helpless myself right now..I tried shortening her A AND extending it..both resulted in the same amount of sleep. However, I know something else is going on. Just hope whatever else it is will pass.

What have you been doing for the first nap? A short A? A long A? What was the longest A you've given him and what did that result in? And the shortest?

Have you kept track of your As over the course of this month? Has there been a pattern?

[Canadian_Mom]

I like that idea Sarah.  Focusing on one nap at a time...good theory.  If he is that OT he is probably going to give you sleep cues all day, so I certainly would not rely on them!
Hope you are able to get an early BT for yourself EM!

[lhosk]

would like to hop on.  my lo is 8.5 mo and is doing nw and ew and has for weeks now.  the nwings have shifted from the 1100-400 am to the 700-1100 pm.  he wakes t the 45  min mark and every few minutes for the next several hours.  last night he didnt settle all night.  we are still getting ew at 445am ish and i fed here or we are up for the day.  so, just want to follow in case i am missing something.

[empowered mama]

they must have a conspiracy against us....they are much smarter than we think 

DH and I took LO to the doc today just to be sure.  After his 1 hour screaming episode and him scratching his ears we thought maybe an ear infection.  But no....the doc said everything was perfect, he is so healthy.  It was one of those, 'dang, I wish we had a logical explanation' moments.

Thankfully we got a halfway decent first nap today - 1h20min (a touch OT it seemed) with an A time of 3h25.  He is on nap #2 and has been in there talking/playing for nearly 45 minutes!  We are up to almost 3h35min A time.  He is consistently doing this, not settling for his 2nd nap for ages.  You think this is another sign of OT?  Should I try to get him down even earlier?  Maybe this is a phase?  (I'd like to think)

Sarah, the shortest A he's had for the first nap is 2h45 which gave us a 1 hour nap.  The longest A has been 3h25 which gave us a 2h15min nap but this was 10 days ago.  Some days an A like 3h5 gave us a 1.5 nap, but other days we would get a 50min nap off the same A time, so it's hard to see a pattern.  I'm almost tempted to go back to those long As from a few weeks ago, because we at least were getting halfway decent naps at that point.

But you're right....I need to try to stop stressing so much about this.  I'm such the "I never give up" type of person that it can take it's toll on my sanity.  I really hope your LO gets back on track too.  They really are mysterious, aren't they?