Extended nursing thread part 3

[gogomama]

Thanks for sharing Marilyn and good luck with #2

A quick question. Did you ladies notice a change in your LOs BMs once they started on cow's milk?? I've been slowly introducing a little bit into a nighttime bottle and have noticed an increase in DSs BMs and a lot more liquidy texture. Sorry if too much TMI  He's also been waking up a lot more at night, but not sure if it is due to other circumstances or not. I'm wondering if I should limit it, but he's been fine with follow on milk. I have a lot of allergies myself, as an infant I had to be on some sort of meat based formula and still have an allergy to soy milk, so I'm a little worried that DS may also be sensitive and I should hold off. Thanks for any insights

[*Ali*]

I don't give cows milk as a drink as Cadan is still too young but we do use whole cows milk in his cereal as I found BM just got runny too quickly and he couldn't eat it like that. I didn't notice any change in BMs and they certainly weren't liquidy.
How long has it been going on for? Could it just be a bug he has picked up? If not maybe he does have intolerances. Perhaps stop the CM and see if it clears up then try reintroducing it and if it happens again that's a good indication it is the CM causing the dodgy BMs.

[LucysMommy]

Well done Marilyn, I hope to do a similar gradual wean with my DD.

gogomama - after starting DD on cow's milk we found that she did have an intolerance to dairy.  She also had many bms each day and lots of night wakings.  About 2 weeks ago we took her and me off dairy altogether and since then she has been sleeping much better and having a better appetite.  I also started adding about 1 teaspoon of ground flax seed and a capsule of probiotics to her cereal each morning.  That has helped her bms become much easier to clean up iykwim!  The doctor suggested we give her fortified soy milk instead of the cow's milk as I am still nursing, and to continue giving vitamin d drops.  It's also important for me to take a calcium supplement until I go back on dairy.  BTW I was recommended to go off dairy for 4 weeks, then slowly reintroduce one type of dairy per week to see what DD might be able to tolerate.  I was told these intolerances often go away around 2-3 yrs old.
HTH!

[First Time Mom]

My dd is now almost 5 but when she was a baby she had a milk protein allergy and I couldn't have any dairy. Around 13 months she started to get over it and was able to digest yogurt, then later cheese, then around 18 months regular cow's milk. They do tend to be able to tollerate one before the other, with milk being last.

Graydon broke out in a full body excema rash when I first gave him cow's milk at 12 months so we stopped. I tried again 2 days ago and no rash, but I noticed he gets congested from it immediately after and it lasts for up to an hour. He isn't fussing or anything from it so I'm continuing to give it to him but only about 2oz into his cereal (mixed with 2oz frozen breast milk).

Anyone's lo not really drink much liquids other than breast milk? Graydon takes the 4 oz milk in his cereal then drinks about 2-4 oz of water in the afternoon and that's it- all other liquid is bfing.

[writelydivided]

Can cow's milk create constipation in anyone's experience? Maggie is just about 14 months and I give her a cup of whole milk instead of BF a few times a week, usually at the end of the week (Thursday or Friday) when I have meetings in the morning and then again on the weekend if we want to be out and about. By Monday, she's constipated, poor little thing. How do I combat? I don't have time to pump enough to offer sippy of breastmilk instead of the whole milk, but worry that offering only water in place of a feed will backfire in hungry/missed naps.

[gogomama]

OMG, so I decided to stop giving DS whole milk and this morning I poured the rest into a glass to finish myself. As I was about to drink it, I got a big whiff and noticed that it just smells FOUL. I feel so horrible, I have been giving him spoiled milk, no wonder his little tummy has been upset! The expiry date isn't for a couple months, but it must have been left out or something. I just feel so so terrible, poor little guy

Writely- I read that the constipation when starting cow's milk is pretty normal. It's something to do with the proteins being more difficult for digestion.

Lucy's mommy- Thanks for your post. It was really very helpful. This may sound completely daft, but why are you to go off of dairy as well if she was fine before she started the cow's milk? Was it creating problems while EBF as well?

[*Ali*]

Rachel -I have definitely heard that cows milk can cause costipation in children, especially if they have an intolerance to it but maybe even if they don't. Could you give water to drink along with a solid snack like fruit, cheerios, a small sandwich etc. rather than milk? Cadan only drinks water at the moment apart from BM and I don't plan to change this for as long as I can.
Gogomama - was it fresh milk you were using? I am just wondering as in the UK cows milk lasts a week or two max so having an expiry date of a few months is unusual to me. Anyway, you never know the milk might have only just spoiled and not been so bad when your DS took it. Surely he would have refused it if it smelt and tasted that bad?

[gogomama]

Cadies Mum- Here we use mostly UHT milk, which basically means its sterilized at a higher temp. so can last for up to 6 months, if unopened. I really hope you are right and it had just gone bad I was mixing 1-3oz of it with follow on milk so that's prolly why DS didn't really notice the taste or so I think. I also give him fermented milk from time to time which also has a kind of sour taste so maybe it didn't catch him as so strange  Needless to say what I thought was an allergic reaction was most likely his body reacting to spoiled milk! Will definitely be smelling all bottles from now on!

[*Ali*]

Oh UHT, yes we get that here too although I don't really like it myself as it tastes very different to the fresh milk we use here. It's funny how in every other country I go to (on holidays etc.) the milk tastes so different. You would think a atural product would be more similar. Must be the processing I guess. And just what you get used to.
It's getting annoying now that DS will skip a feed if we are out as he gets so distracted. Even at home I have to feed in a room with no other people or sounds like radio/TV. Even the cats can't be around or he is bobbing on and off to see what's going on. I am off out to meet a friend for lunch in a busy restaurant. I am going to let DS take his nap in the buggy on the way. I am sure he is going to refuse the feed when he gets up as it will be too busy. I might have to go early and plan to hide out in the baby change to feed him first.

[LucysMommy]

Hi gogomama, about me going off the dairy... looking back over the first year of DD, she was always very fussy when nursing as a newborn, and never a good sleeper.  The doctor had told me her fussiness when nursing would go away as she matured, and that I needed to let her cry it out at night so she could learn to sleep independently.  I never felt right about trying that.  I just thought she would grow out of it but she never did.  So basically now I think she has always had the milk intolerance and I didn't realize it until I started looking into it myself.  And it got worse when I gave her cow's milk, yogurt, etc. but it was hard to notice what was causing the problem since she has never STTN and always had lots of night wakings.
Since going off the dairy there has been a great improvement in her sleep.  I am hoping to start introducing dairy back into my diet gradually after we have both been dairy free for about a month.  I also plan on going down to 2 feeds a day at the end of the month so she won't be having as much of my breastmilk then either.

[Whatbit]

Hmmm... hadn't really noticed a difference in BM with the cow's milk (5oz at his 10am feed now and in cooking) but he has had some softer BM that I just attributed to what he's been eating.  I'll have to watch now and see if it's always after the 10am feed.  It's not runny or anything, just soft. 

Gogomama, don't feel bad about the milk.  I gave DS a foul bottle of EBM once- poor guy!  He was fussing a lot and I couldn't understand why so I tried it thinking it was the temperature- blech!!!  That was the worst taste ever!!!

Cadie's mom- have you tried using a cup to feed him if you're at a restaurant?  DS will gladly drink from a cup if he sees other people doing it and I think that I'll be moving towards a cup for his milk soon (right now he gets water or smoothie or soup in his regular small cup).  Just thinkinhg maybe it would be somehting he might enjoy even with all the distractions going on.

Marian, DS is offered water after each of his meals.  Sometimes he drinks it, sometimes not.  Usually it's about 2oz or so at each meal.  That plus the 3 BF and 1 bottle of cows milk is what he takes in during the day to drink.

[*Ali*]

Thanks for the idea about the cup at restaurants Stefanie. He drinks water from various types of cup and today at the restaurant he drank orange juice - which he hadn't had before - through a straw. It was mine but he kept bugging me for it til I gave in and he loved it. It wasn't diluted so I only let him have a little bit. I think I may try to take some EBM in future. It's just such a hassle as I don't pump regularly anymore. I used to pump every night before going to bed and use it in his foods but gave up. He didn't like the cereal runny like it turned with BM after a few minutes and I kept getting blocked ducts so I stopped in the end figuring he must get enough from hgis 4BFs every day. Doing it now and then for the occasional cup should be OK though. Today while we were out he skipped his BF when he woke at 12 and had his lunch instead but took it when we got home about 2.30pm. I'll probably try to squeeze in another BF when he wakes and then give him another at BT.

[inoella]

Hi Ladies - DD just turned one and it occurred to me that we are now officially part of the extended nursing group.  l am relieved to read your posts as DD still nurses 3-4 times a day - at wake up and then before both naps and bt. She doesn't actually fall asleep nursing - but she INSISTS on it so strongly that I keep giving in. I don't feel so badly now that I've read up on this thread but I would like her to take a bottle of ebm from dh now and then! sigh... thots? should i try to wean the before nap nursings? i'm pretty sure it's just a comfort/settling thing but i hate to deny it unless in the long run it will be detrimental in some way.

looking for some more info on the nw from cows milk? dd has been drinking water since about 6 months so i mostly offer that between meals but have been offering more whole milk the past 4 weeks or so with meals. i thot she got a cold at nursery but she still has the sniffles several weeks later  and is congested and is still waking several times at night even tho I've all but weaned the night feedings - the first waking i can usually get her to just lay back down, the second one she takes a good long drink of water. but i'm wondering now if the congestion and nw are from the milk? the congestion makes sense but why the nw? just hoping for more insight. since doing wiwo we're doing so much better with naps and bt but i can't figure out the nw...

[LucysMommy]

DD had bad night wakings which came back about a week after we put her on soy milk, so after 3 weeks of soy milk the dr. suggested trying goat's milk instead of soy or cow's milk.  We started that about 6 days ago.  Also when she wakes at night now, which is usually once in the early morning hours, I do a 'GW' type method to help her go back to sleep - basically I sit on the floor by the crib and talk to her, tell her to lie down, find your paci, go back to sleep, etc.  until she settles down.  I wanted her to learn to go back to sleep without being picked up or especially being breastfed in the night.  The first 2 nights took over an hour of crying.  She was really mad.  The 3rd night about 10 minutes of fussing, then she slept through the night the last 2 nights.  There is more about GW and wi/wo out on the toddler sleep board.  It's hard to know if it is an actually intolerance to milk or soy, or if it is just coincidentally happening at the same time that she is learning to sleep by herself.  The dr. thought that if it was truly an intolerance that there would be more symptoms than night waking.  DD got sick a few weeks ago and I did nurse her a few times in the night to help her.... guess she didn't want to give that up now that she is better.

[LucysMommy]

I have stopped DD's daytime feed so am now just feeding her at wake up and bedtime.  She is so clingy now during the day!  She keeps asking for milk and I give her her goat's milk and she just pushes it away.  Poor doll.  She is now waking up again in the early morning hours asking for milk... it takes a while to get her back to sleep until her real wake up time.  How long did it take your LO's to adjust when you dropped a feed?  It makes me sad that I am not bfing her in the day anymore, but as I am anticipating going back to work soon I thought it would be better for her to adjust now while I am home to give extra cuddles.